Does Te'o get his job back?

[Yubaking]

Your player analysis are long winded opinions that hold little water. How is a guy that played one snap that matters (regular season) out-playing anyone at his position? Rediculous. Then again, just look at all the crap you spewed with your man crush in John Jenkins....we should have drafted him....he is soooo good....yeah, so good that he is benched on a team with a shitty DL. Yes, he is young and can still develop into a useful player, but right now he is FAR from it. Time will tell for Nix. Perhaps it is time for you to realize that McCoy and TT have forgotten more than you will ever know about player evaluations.

I am going to break this down into multiple posts.

First, as to Jenkins/Allen, I stand by my rationale that with the knowledge we had at the time of the draft, the pick should have been John Jenkins. At that time, WR was our deepest position on the team. We had Alexander, Floyd, Royal and what we all thought was an emerging Brown. We thought we were going to be stuck with the crappy Meachem contract as well and would have to keep him. It was only fluke injuries to the 3 WRs and Brown sucking that got Allen the opportunity to emerge. Allen is talented--never said he wasn't (even though I was frustrated by his early 2013 preseason struggles since that was the guy we passed on Jenkins to get), so he took full advantage of his opportunity, but how it worked out at WR for him to emerge as he did was pure luck of circumstance.

NT was a big need for us then and it still is unless one of our guys develops. Geathers has shown flashes and looked very good against SF in the preseason, but then got hurt. This would be the same Geathers that was not good enough in his final year of college to start anywhere initially on a Georgia DL whose best lineman was...Jenkins. Geathers did start after one of Georgia's other DL players got injured.

Second, your ignorance about Jenkins is impressive. The fact that he had a pectoral injury that required surgery in June might have had just a little bit to do with why he has not been able to return to the form he displayed last year. In The Advocate just today, there is an article that discusses how well Jenkins played last year when he had a chance and how he was expected to challenge Bunkley for the starting job this year. He had impressed his coaches with his combination of size and speed. His pectoral injury is discussed and while Jenkins says on the one hand he is okay, on the other he talks about the need to consider his longevity.

On Saintsreport.com, a Saints forum, there is a thread entitled Any reason why John Jenkins is not playing? In that thread, Jenkins is described as being a steal for them last year, but not in top form due to being out of shape and not at full strength following his injury and how it was reported that he was only supposed to be back in October. He is characterized by one Saints poster as being an immovable wall in the middle of the Saints defense and another poster stated that he was expecting a breakout year from Jenkins.

Nobody anywhere suggests the guy is a bum and can't play football, which is what is suggested by your post--that he is some scrub bench warmer. If we had had Jenkins last year, he likely would have been no worse than our second best DL player--as a rookie.

And, by the way, Jenkins plays behind Bunkley, who is a solid veteran DL player (better than any NT currently on our team). That is not a crime for a developing second year DL and it is high praise that he was expected to challenge for the starting position absent his injury. Did you ever stop and consider that if Alexander and Floyd didn't get injured, Allen would be a reserve WR for us right now?! The difference is that Bunkley returned after Jenkins played really well for him for 5 games last year and Alexander and Floyd did not after their injuries. In other words, it was a total fluke. Well, that, and I would expect a WR to develop more quickly than a NT anyway.

[Guest]

Oh no. Why'd you guys have to pull his string?

[Yubaking]

Your player analysis are long winded opinions that hold little water. How is a guy that played one snap that matters (regular season) out-playing anyone at his position? Rediculous. Then again, just look at all the crap you spewed with your man crush in John Jenkins....we should have drafted him....he is soooo good....yeah, so good that he is benched on a team with a shitty DL. Yes, he is young and can still develop into a useful player, but right now he is FAR from it. Time will tell for Nix. Perhaps it is time for you to realize that McCoy and TT have forgotten more than you will ever know about player evaluations.

I have posted multiple times that I am considering Conner's preseason performance in making my assessment that Conner has looked more impressive to me than Te'o. The "one snap" crap is an idiotic red herring posted by SD17 that is contrary to what I said I considered even before SD17's lame posts entered the picture on that subject.

Tourek Williams has played some snaps at OLB for us in regular season games and I think Law has looked more impressive than Williams as well.

I don't know why that is such a difficult concept for some people to grasp. It is what have we seen from Player A in the preseason and regular season versus what we have seen from Player B.

Equally absurd is SD17's suggestion that preseason performance is somehow irrelevant. We all understand that if a player is playing against lesser competition, that needs to be considered as part of the overall analysis. Yet, somehow, NFL coaches and GMs seem to think that what happens in these preseason games matters in terms of player analysis and those games still get played.

So, to me, Conner has looked more impressive, but I am keeping an open mind. And I appreciate Steve's analysis which discusses how Conner's performance may at times look impressive, but in terms of being fundamentally sound, Te'o may be doing a better job. That could well be the case.

As I have said, I just want the best player to play. We will get to see what Conner looks like with extended exposure soon enough and then we can all reevaluate our thoughts. Maybe Conner will struggle in which case I will prefer Te'o when he returns. Or maybe Conner will continue to make great plays like he did in the preseason and he has done on special teams, in which case I will prefer Conner when Te'o returns.

Finally, as has been noted, if Conner plays well, it may not be Conner or Te'o, but Conner and Te'o if Butler continues not to live up to his big contract (which would be further evidence that the team is not going to be swayed by having to admit to an error in player analysis when it comes to which player plays--that's a good thing).

[SDFan]

why do I feel a need to bleach my eyes every time I see a Yuba post?

[Panama]

I don't know why you are apologizing to me for. All I said was that Ingram was our best pass rusher since Shawn Shillips was here. That's not saying that he's better then Phillips. Now 3 or 4 years down the road and if somehow Melvin Ingram can manage to stay healthy which so far is a huge concern then yes I myself believe that Melvin Ingram can be better then Shawn Phillips ever was.

Melvin Ingram is, right now, better than Shawn Phillips ever was.

[Panama]

Well, I am not sure what Den was thinking on that one, but I think the Conner versus Te'o discussion is much more realistic.

I agree with you that preseason is not as meaningful as regular season games, but that was part of the limited play we have seen from Conner with our defense. Basically, the guy has played very well for us when he has played. I would actually put it on the border/fringe of "really good" and "kicking ass" for us.

Like I said, I think Conner and Walker have both played better than Te'o. I do not think Te'o has played all that well. I disagree with your assertion that he has looked good. He has mostly looked average. If I had to stray from average and pick above or below, I would be closer to choosing below average. That said, I do not think Te'o has looked horrible either.

The hypothetical asks us to assume that Conner plays well. If he plays well, that is better than Te'o has played for us. So the question is what would happen if Conner plays better than Te'o played and Te'o recovers. Who starts then?

I disagree with your IR analysis. I never suggested Te'o was playing poorly on the whole, so he would be quality depth at a minimum, even though his performance has only been average at best. If he were able to recover and the team did not have more immediate pressing needs consuming roster spots, there would be no reason to IR Te'o even if Conner were deemed the better player.

I am not saying that the team will cave in to pressure and/or that that is why the team would play Te'o. What I said was that there is pressure to play Te'o and that I hope the team will not give in to that pressure and will make a decision based upon performance and not based upon that pressure. In so stating, I am considering the possibility that Conner is better than Te'o and I am considering the opposite possibility, but the pressure could only affect the result of one of those possibilities.

I like what I have seen from Conner and it gives me a basis to consider the possibility that he is better than Te'o, which is why I think the question was posed in this thread in the first place (if I were to speculate), but I also realize that additional exposure for Conner may reveal weaknesses in his game that have not yet surfaced.

All I am saying is that I want the best player to play and right now that looks to me like it is Conner, but that could change. We will all see soon enough.

Conner and Walker have been more physical than Te'o. They have not been better than Te'o. You shouldn't confuse the two.

[Panama]

I responded to your discussion of Phillips. How does that constitute me being the one initiating the discussion of Phillips?

I do not recall ever having a discussion specifically geared to Ingram versus Phillips, which you invited by comparing the two. It's simple. If you don't want to discuss Phillips, then don't discuss Phillips.

But if you do discuss Phillips, then be prepared for others to do so.

I never claimed you started the discussion on Phillips. Did you follow the link I posted, YubbaBubba? Neither one of us (for a change) initiated the Phillips discussion.

[sandiego17]

I don't know why that is such a difficult concept for some people to grasp. It is what have we seen from Player A in the preseason and regular season versus what we have seen from Player B.

I won't quote the rest of your post to save time. What have you seen from player A in the regular season? What did you see from Player B in the preseason? Lets call Player A Conner. Well, he hasn't played anything but special teams. Lets call player B Te'o. He hardly played in the preseason.

Your timeline is completely 'absurd' too. I said Te'o has been the best ILB so far this season. Not preseason, this season. You took exception to that and said you don't think so and went on spinning about preseason and special teams for pages. Not play at ILB this season, but preseason and special teams. Ridiculing that line of thinking is low hanging fruit, on par with Vaughn Martin analysis. There was no 'entering' anything. Try to keep up.

Its not even debatable, Te'o has been the best ILB so far this season. The other guys have barely played the position (one played one snap) and the starter opposite him was going to lose playing time due to his poor play. Your war on Te'o isn't as absurd as your war on Allen, but still, pretty absurd and again, you show no objectivity when it involves players you prematurely evaluated.

[Panama]

Dude, that is a huge insult and totally uncalled for since I never said you said that Ingram was better than Phillips. I quoted and responded to Panama, not you.

And I have only said about 50 times that I am not a Phillips fan at all. Swami's head never escaped Brees' jock--ever! How is that the same?! There is no player that I discuss in any way like Swami discussed Brees, not even close and not even with respect to Rivers, who is "my guy".

But I am capable of being objective. From a very objective standpoint, I think it was a mistake not to sign Phillips last year. That didn't go as well for us as we struggled at OLB for most of the year. I think there is little doubt Phillips would have helped us then. But last year is over.

This year I am not so sure that Phillips would help us. He has not done anything in TEN so far and our pass rush has been better than it was last year. I also note that he did not finish last year strongly (although he did start off very strongly). It may be a sign that he is in significant decline at this point at age 33. So far, unlike last year, Freeney has played better than Phillips. We also now have Attaochu and at least began the year with Ingram and should get him back. Law may have some potential as a pass rusher too.

So, Telesco may have been guilty of the preferred mistake of being a year too early with Phillips. Nobody's perfect. And contrary to popular opinion, I do not think I am anywhere close to perfect either.

(1) Rep to chris9341.

(2) Waaaaaaa! He called me names! Waaaaaa! Admins!!!!

(3) Objective. "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
inigo.png

[Panama]

Crazy talk. Dude has impressed. On that one snap he played, he blew up everyone in a 10 yard radius.

We should nickname him Candy Crush.

[Panama]

He will be missed on Special Teams.

For once I agree with you. He has been a force on ST.

[sandiego17]

Equally absurd is SD17's suggestion that preseason performance is somehow irrelevant. We all understand that if a player is playing against lesser competition, that needs to be considered as part of the overall analysis. Yet, somehow, NFL coaches and GMs seem to think that what happens in these preseason games matters in terms of player analysis and those games still get played.

Four preseason games still get played for revenues, the league and players know you don't need more than one or two, if that. Again, try to keep up, I said it was irrelevant in the context of discussing whose been the best ILB on the team this season, not irrelevant to see who should be 4th and 5th stringers. So who in your opinion has been the best OLB this season? Codarro Law has 13 tackles, 2.5 sacks, 3 qb hits, 2 passes defensed and 2 tackles for loss. Although he's played one less snap than Conner on D during the regular season, his preseason production should have him in the running, right? Different rules for Conner and Law, or same evaluation?