Does Te'o get his job back?

[Coachmarkos]

Conner played better than Teo in the preseason, but he was going against the backups. And he's more experienced. Teo was coming off an injury and going against starters for the most part.

I agree with whoever said Teo is playing better than Butler. To this point, that's what I've seen too.

Yuba has a valid point about the trade up, it probably wasn't necessary. However, that's past us, and he's a valuable player, and a starter on this team.

[sandiego17]

Yuba has a valid point about the trade up, it probably wasn't necessary. However, that's past us, and he's a valuable player, and a starter on this team.

I take offense to being called 'whoever' . I don't think there has ever been a trade up I really liked, but I don't hold that against the player. It wasn't Hester's fault or Weddle's or Te'o's or Attachou's. I also don't get very hung up about 4th round picks. Yes you could find good players everywhere, but that includes UDFA, etc.

[Yubaking]

Ok, yes, apologies to chris9341 -- to Shawn Phillips fanboys and stats-obsessed geeks, Ingram is not better than Phillips ever was. But to people who have played the game of football and/or actually know the game of football, Ingram is much better than Phillips ever was. Phillips began his career as a promising pass-rush specialist who was a real liability against the run. He did eventually become decent against the run, and he got a lot of sacks, but he was rarely disruptive in the backfield and would disappear for long stretches, especially against good OTs. Ingram's sack numbers may not be impressive, but he is a disruptive force against both the run and the pass and must be accounted for on every play. Football people value this more than stats-padders like Phillips, but there's no convincing a fanboy.

Again, Ingram has the potential to be better than Phillips, but has not been as good as Phillips was for us to this point in his young career. You vastly overstate Ingram's value versus the run while undervaluing how well Phillips played versus the run. I think it would be fair to say that Ingram is as good against the run as Phillips and has the potential to be better against the run than Phillips was. However, even if Ingram were slightly better against the run than Phillips was for us (which I would dispute given Ingram's inconsistency on the field--not uncommon for a younger player), that would not come close to offsetting Phillips' vast superiority when compared to Ingram's career thus far as a pass rusher.

Like I said, you and some of the others have a flagrant anti-Phillips bias. That is the only way someone like me who is essentially neutral toward Phillips (not a "fanboy" by a longshot) and does not even particularly like Phillips can be viewed as being so much of a fan of a player. Your assertion about my allegiances is wildly false.

FWIW, my favorite Chargers ever are (from the Chargers teams of my childhood) Fouts, Winslow, Jefferson, Chandler, Joiner, Dean, Johnson, (from the Chargers Super Bowl era teams) Seau, Means, Harrison, Harmon, (from the Rivers era) Rivers, Merriman, LT, Gates, Jamal and Sproles. Rivers and Fouts are my two favorite all time Chargers. I could probably name 100+ additional Chargers that I like better than Phillips.

[homeless simpson]

Is it okay if we can have threads not end up being a discussion about Shaun Phillips every goddam fucking time?

Kthnxbi

[Yubaking]

Sacks aren't the only measure of defensive performance. But than again, sacks. Is Phillips better than Seau? I mean, sacks. How many seasons did Seau get 1 or zero sacks, 8? 9? Seau never got 8, Phillips has three season in double digits man, watch the games panama! Only in some bizarre realm can you consider that Seau performed as well as Phillips, much less better than him.

First, for a pass rushing OLB, sacks matter. I guess you are conceding that Phillips has been a better pass rusher than Ingram to this point in Ingram's career.

Second, Ingram has done nothing to distinguish himself over Phillips versus the run.

Third, Seau was not an OLB. Seau's sack totals are less important for me, just like the sack totals of my prototypical NT are less important. You know, Rivers didn't have many sacks and I think he is the best player on the Chargers. Just maybe you are bit off in characterizing my view.

Fourth, you are comparing a Hall of Fame ILB to an OLB that has played all of 22 games in the NFL and has not distinguished himself really at all to this point (largely due to injury I am sure--I do not doubt his potential). Ingram is not close to Seau. He is not yet close to Phillips. Maybe someday, but not so far. And any suggestion that he has proven himself to that degree is wholly unsupported and unwarranted, but not unexpected from the anti-Phillips crowd.

[sandiego17]

Yuba, Ingram is better than Phillips, but he needs to stay healthy or it won't matter. And I didn't compare Seau to Ingram, I compated Seau to the greatest linebacker since, well, ever, Shaun Jamal Phillips.

[richpjr]

Is it okay if we can have threads not end up being a discussion about Shaun Phillips every goddam fucking time?

Kthnxbi

^This. Please yuba.

[Yubaking]

Unless you've already made up your mind and cannot be objective. Is there even a question that he has been the best ILB this season? I like how the excuse of 'looking bad' are made, this is the same group that benched and cut their marquee FA signing after one season, but somehow they're now in a 'touchy' situation with a player that's played well?

From the preseason games and 3 regular season games, the most impressive ILB players have been Walker and Conner. Conner looked great in the preseason at ILB and has been excellent at special teams. He seems to be faster, more stout and a better tackler than Te'o. Walker has been all over the field when he has been in the game. Butler and Te'o have looked okay, but neither has impressed me so far. In fact, Te'o looked bad earlier in the year when he attempted to do A gap blitzes. He sucked at that--ran right by the ball carrier twice and left a nice hole for good opponent gains. Other than that, Te'o has looked okay, not great, but okay.

The knock on Conner is that he is not as good against the pass. I guess we will find out. But I take it for granted that the hypothetical was raised by Antonio's Gates because he can see what I am seeing as a potential ILB competition/controversy between Conner and Te'o because Te'o has been injured a lot and Conner has performed really well (I would say better than Te'o) when he has been in there.

Also, when it comes to potential negative publicity, I think there is no comparison between a medium expensive low profile FA bust (which happens all the time) from Jacksonville being benched and a super high profile early round draft pick that the team questionably traded up to get being benched. And there is a cumulative effect to perceived mistakes by the GM as well. If you do not believe me, consider how the perception of A.J. changed over the years from the guy you while blindfolded could find a golden needle in a stack of needles to a guy who could not find water if he fell out of a boat in the ocean. So there could be (I am not saying there is and I am hoping that there is not) pressure to play Te'o over Conner that is independent of quality of play.

And please do not act like I am communicating in Chinese when I say this. This is the exact same rationale that people were putting forth when they suggested on this forum that the Texans had to keep Nix over R. Mathews because Nix was a third round draft pick. To the extent it exists, it would appear to apply more forcefully in Te'o's case because he is a higher profile player (by far), was an earlier round draft pick, and the team even gave up an extra pick to get him and did so when there were multiple other players of widely perceived similar ability on the board, some of which have outperformed Te'o thus far.

[Yubaking]

^This. Please yuba.

Again, read the thread. I am not the one that brought up Phillips. There was zero reason for Panama to bring up Phillips but he did. If you are going to direct your comment at anyone, try directing it at the person that initiated the discussion.

[Yubaking]

Yuba, Ingram is better than Phillips, but he needs to stay healthy or it won't matter. And I didn't compare Seau to Ingram, I compated Seau to the greatest linebacker since, well, ever, Shaun Jamal Phillips.

He has the unrealized potential to be better. Probably because he has been injured so much, that potential has not yet been realized.

The comparison to Seau was off base and you know it.

[Panama]

Again, Ingram has the potential to be better than Phillips, but has not been as good as Phillips was for us to this point in his young career. You vastly overstate Ingram's value versus the run while undervaluing how well Phillips played versus the run. I think it would be fair to say that Ingram is as good against the run as Phillips and has the potential to be better against the run than Phillips was. However, even if Ingram were slightly better against the run than Phillips was for us (which I would dispute given Ingram's inconsistency on the field--not uncommon for a younger player), that would not come close to offsetting Phillips' vast superiority when compared to Ingram's career thus far as a pass rusher.

Like I said, you and some of the others have a flagrant anti-Phillips bias. That is the only way someone like me who is essentially neutral toward Phillips (not a "fanboy" by a longshot) and does not even particularly like Phillips can be viewed as being so much of a fan of a player. Your assertion about my allegiances is wildly false.

FWIW, my favorite Chargers ever are (from the Chargers teams of my childhood) Fouts, Winslow, Jefferson, Chandler, Joiner, Dean, Johnson, (from the Chargers Super Bowl era teams) Seau, Means, Harrison, Harmon, (from the Rivers era) Rivers, Merriman, LT, Gates, Jamal and Sproles. Rivers and Fouts are my two favorite all time Chargers. I could probably name 100+ additional Chargers that I like better than Phillips.

Nah, you think because we see what's going on on the field (instead of, say, relying on misleading stats) we're anti-Phillips. Well, here's a bit of news for you. For most of his Chargers tenure, I loved him. He was one of my favorite Chargers for a few years. When he started out and he was pathetic against the run, I would defend him publicly -- "Don't you worry, he'll learn to play the run" And he did. But as much as I liked Phillips, he was never dominant. Never mind his sack numbers; they're only a part of the picture.

Unlike Phillips, when Ingram is on the field, he is constantly a difference maker, someone who constantly has to be accounted for, in a way that Phillips never was.

[sandiego17]

From the preseason games and 3 regular season games, the most impressive ILB players have been Walker and Conner. Conner looked great in the preseason at ILB and has been excellent at special teams. He seems to be faster, more stout and a better tackler than Te'o. Walker has been all over the field when he has been in the game. Butler and Te'o have looked okay, but neither has impressed me so far. In fact, Te'o looked bad earlier in the year when he attempted to do A gap blitzes. He sucked at that--ran right by the ball carrier twice and left a nice hole for good opponent gains. Other than that, Te'o has looked okay, not great, but okay.

When you start going to preseason, you're reaching. Te'o didn't even play in preseason. Who said Te'o looked great? Te'o looked good and he's a young player with potential to improve. I do think he's played much better than any of our ILB, including Butler so far.

the knock on Conner is that he is not as good against the pass. I guess we will find out. But I take it for granted that the hypothetical was raised by Antonio's Gates because he can see what I am seeing as a potential ILB competition/controversy between Conner and Te'o because Te'o has been injured a lot and Conner has performed really well (I would say better than Te'o) when he has been in there.

Ok. And Den thought Rivers should be traded. Crazy talk happens all the time, its what makes the board go at times.

Also, when it comes to potential negative publicity, I think there is no comparison between a medium expensive low profile FA bust (which happens all the time) from Jacksonville being benched and a super high profile early round draft pick that the team questionably traded up to get being benched. And there is a cumulative effect to perceived mistakes by the GM as well. If you do not believe me, consider how the perception of A.J. changed over the years from the guy you while blindfolded could find a golden needle in a stack of needles to a guy who could not find water if he fell out of a boat in the ocean. So there could be (I am not saying there is and I am hoping that there is not) pressure to play Te'o over Conner that is independent of quality of play.

And please do not act like I am communicating in Chinese when I say this. This is the exact same rationale that people were putting forth when they suggested on this forum that the Texans had to keep Nix over R. Mathews because Nix was a third round draft pick. To the extent it exists, it would appear to apply more forcefully in Te'o's case because he is a higher profile player (by far), was an earlier round draft pick, and the team even gave up an extra pick to get him and did so when there were multiple other players of widely perceived similar ability on the board, some of which have outperformed Te'o thus far.

I disagree that there is pressure to play the guy. Keeping him on the roster is one thing (as the Texans did with Nix), but the Texans didn't play him. The argument that he's playing ahead of Conner due to pressure doesn't hold water when you consider they could just IR Te'o with a broken foot and reliever that pressure if they really felt Conner is better. That doesn't reflect poorly on anybody, he has a broken bone. Take Woodhead for example, nobody is claiming it was a mistake to extend the guy and he's on IR. If the OIP 'week to week' ends up being 8, 10 or more weeks and the Bolts lose Butler or Conner for a couple weeks, placing Te'o on IR might still make sense. So, in Chinese if you prefer, if they're really just playing him simply due to pressure, why didn't they IR him immediately?