Does Te'o get his job back?

[Yubaking]

Royal, Alexander and Floyd all had pretty serious injury histories. I think we're done here.

Sorry, but knowledge of a prior injury history on the part of healthy players comes nowhere close to our top receiver being gone off the roster, our next best player having a career threatening injury and an unexpected failure to return to previous form by Brown, plus the biting of the bullet with respect to Meachem's contract.

[Beerman]

Our run defense is of the same quality as ATL's. We are getting more stops because our pass D is better. We have to make fewer stops because our offense usually controls time of possession. Those things do not mean our run defense is better.

SEA's run average would have mattered if they had equal time of possession. Then, they likely would have killed us. They shot themselves in the foot by not running the ball more--seriously, they had a total of 13 rushing attempts for the game. Their forum (seahawkblue.com) went apeshit over the lack of their use of their vaunted running game in that game.

Not one of our opponents has rushed the ball over 41% (when rounded) of the time against us. They have attacked our comparative strength (pass defense) all year long. I think the weakness in run defense will show up much more clearly if/when somebody actually makes a dedicated effort (more than 50% of offensive plays) to run against us. Just like what happened when the Cowboys and Seahawks played us in the preseason, I think that we may struggle when challenged with a dedicated rushing attack. In addition to working against our defense, I am concerned that that will also limit our offense by lowering our time of possession.

I understand that quick penetrating NTs have value. But just out of curiosity, do you think a smaller, quick NT (let's say like Ratliff in recent years) can play in a two gap scheme?

You do understand that is exactly why the defense is built how it is right? It's a TEAM sport. When our offense is controlling the game LIKE IT'S DESIGNED to do, it forces opposing offenses to throw the ball.

Now I know this is a difficult concept, but if you design an offense to do a certain thing (force opposing offenses to throw against you ALL THE TIME), don't you think that you should design a defense to counter that?

That is how the TEAM has been designed and built. We control the clock, we score points. It forces opposing teams to throw to catch up.

Now, knowing what you know, should we bolster our pass D or the run defense? I know it's a tough question. Very difficult concepts here.

If you guessed run defense...you'd be wrong. Yup, TT addressed the pass rush and the CB's this offseason.

Now, you keep saying if teams will just commit to the run...well shit we literally just played 3 of the most run heavy teams from the past season - Zona, Sea, Buffalo. Literally all they did was run last season. ALL THEY DID WAS FUCKING RUN. And you are saying if only they committed to the run....

Teams simply can't run all game against us because our offense crushes bitches. That's what we do. We control the ball. We convert 3rd downs. We score points. Efficiency is the offenses middle name. We don't give opposing teams the opportunity to score because we simply don't commit turnovers or give them repeated opportunities.

That is why run defense doesn't matter that much. That's why we spend literally 70% of our snaps in our nickel. All it takes is one run blitz into the right gap to kill a drive. Then we get the ball and go and score. Guess what, the opposing team has to abandon the run game.

There's a reason we didn't lose a single game last year by more than 10 points - it was by design. That's what they fucking do.

[Beerman]

Sorry, but knowledge of a prior injury history on the part of healthy players comes nowhere close to our top receiver being gone off the roster, our next best player having a career threatening injury and an unexpected failure to return to previous form by Brown, plus the biting of the bullet with respect to Meachem's contract.

Pretty much none of the WR's we had really fit the role Allen plays in this offense (very few in the league do actually). None of them have Allen's ability in the short/intermediate passing game that Allen possesses with his route running. His ability to explode off the line and out of his cuts, is probably second to none right now. It doesn't mean he's the best receiver in the league, but he's perfect for our system.

If you go back to TT's comments prior to the draft, he made a point that we needed to get Rivers playmakers. I think he succeeded.

Maybe you just happened to gloss over that little fact. Carry on with your non sense though.

Oh and injuries are pretty damn easy to anticipate. TT in fact did it again this season where we had very injury prone players - ILB, CB, RB, and OLB. He was fucking spot on actually and is directly responsible for us being 3-1 right now.

Maybe just maybe, the guy knows what the hell he's doing.

[sandiego17]

Sorry, but knowledge of a prior injury history on the part of healthy players comes nowhere close to our top receiver being gone off the roster, our next best player having a career threatening injury and an unexpected failure to return to previous form by Brown, plus the biting of the bullet with respect to Meachem's contract.

Such nonsensical spin. Alexander was given the lowest tender basically inviting him to leave. If you value a guy as much as you think they did, would you risk losing him for zilch? Nada? Nothing. Insert Chinese word for no compensation here. As management, you don't think they had an idea of where they stood on meachem? Not to mention his shitiness? Browns return to what form? Preaseason again? Floyd and royal, when was the last time either played without significant injuries?

Obviously I disagree with you in terms of need. I firmly believe if you give rivers enough weapons, bolts can beat anybody. Imagine rivers with a Julio jones and Keenan Allen. Hopefully TT gets him another WR next season.

[Yubaking]

And you don't get to say Te'o is average just because he hasn't been healthy and hasn't gotten his chance.

As far as Allen and Jenkins excelling, it is interesting how positive you are on Allen after you derided nearly everything about him early last year. Didn't you say you were faster than Allen at one point? I'd say this is a near 180.

Te'o's performance this year while fully healthy in three games has been average. I don't even think that's a controversial assertion.

Jenkins played above average football last year in limited activity. That's why Saints posters and media people consider him a potential breakout candidate or at least they did until his injury. He has not played fully healthy this year and his DC has already explained that he is not fully back yet from his injury.

I and our coaches were critical of Allen in the preseason because he struggled then. I acknowledged Allen's improved play when that happened.

Not that it matters, but at one point, I could run about 4.6 in the 40 on my best day. That time is barely faster than the times posted by Allen and Te'o at the combine. I think the prevailing wisdom is that Allen was not fully recovered from his knee injury then. He is probably around a 4.5 guy at full health. Te'o ran faster at his pro day. I am old, much heavier, slow and post blown Achilles' tendon rupture now.

[richpjr]

Geez, up to 17 pages of this junk?

[Yubaking]

Pretty much none of the WR's we had really fit the role Allen plays in this offense (very few in the league do actually). None of them have Allen's ability in the short/intermediate passing game that Allen possesses with his route running. His ability to explode off the line and out of his cuts, is probably second to none right now. It doesn't mean he's the best receiver in the league, but he's perfect for our system.

If you go back to TT's comments prior to the draft, he made a point that we needed to get Rivers playmakers. I think he succeeded.

Maybe you just happened to gloss over that little fact. Carry on with your non sense though.

Oh and injuries are pretty damn easy to anticipate. TT in fact did it again this season where we had very injury prone players - ILB, CB, RB, and OLB. He was fucking spot on actually and is directly responsible for us being 3-1 right now.

Maybe just maybe, the guy knows what the hell he's doing.

Then, why did he screw the pooch at OLB, stripping us bare of pass rushers except Ingram in 2013, who got injured in short order?

If he knew our starting WRs were going to go down, why did he make any offer to Alexander at all? Why didn't he draft two WRs? Why didn't he anticipate injuries at other positions? Why not cut Hardwick then before this season began to save $$$? Obviously, he cannot anticipate the various specific injuries. In football, anyone can get injured at any time.

[Beerman]

You do know of this thing called roster restrictions right? Feel free to ignore the rest of my post that crushed you.

[Bolt-O]

Q, I won't quote your post on advice to Yubaking, but you are spot on. Some people are invested on being right and it does make sense for certain professions, but when it comes to entertainment, being right is useless except for bragging rights. I can understand liking a cetain player at the draft, but there are no guarantees, no can't miss as fate is never predictable. Arguing a hypothetical is useless, especially if the situation will never ever happen

[Beerman]

BTW this baseball game is pretty great. 11th inning for play in playoff game is amazing.

[Panamamike]

YPC against absolutely matters in terms of defining a good run defense.

Teams get extra plays against ATL not so much because of their 22nd ranked run defense in terms of YPC against, but rather because of their dead last YPA against pass defense. They are averaging giving up 8.6 yards per pass attempt against them. That is truly awful--fully a half a yard per attempt worse than the worst team in the NFL last year.

We are better as the 17th best team in that respect. While our defense is improved over last year versus the pass, our defense still benefits hugely from our ball control offense. That's why we are a top 10 team (9th in total yards against), but do not rank in the top 50% in either yards per carry against or yards per pass against.

Miami's run defense struggled at times last year because they had two of the worst LBs in the NFL playing behind Soliai. Nobody that followed the Dolphins (their fans or media)put their run defense issues on Soliai. The fact is that ATL's run defense is much better than it was last year when they did not have Soliai and it is so despite them being without one of their LBs.

Total rushing yards surrendered that come only as the result of more defensive snaps against the run mean nothing. I can assure you that ATL's total yards surrendered right now will be much, much less than any team's will be at the end of the season. That does not mean that ATL has the best run defense in the NFL. Why not? Because other teams will have given up their yards on many, many more attempts.

It works the same way in a single game too. If a team averages dick running the ball, say 3 yards per carry, but gets to try 50 carries because they can pick up a first down with their great passing attack, that does not mean that that offense is a great or even good running team, but sure enough they will have 150 rushing yards. And not only is their opponent not a bad rushing defense, they are actually a great rushing defense at 3.0 YPC against. But their performance against the pass might leave quite a bit to be desired.

That's why total yards without the YPC to go with it is totally meaningless.

I said a great NT will make a defense better. Good grief! You were the one that cited the article in August that discussed Jenkins. That article discusses what a strong block occupying, pocket collapsing NT does for a team. And that includes helping the pass defense. That kind of NT helps the DEs/OLBs get sacks and helps keep the LBs clean so they can make plays. Read your own cited article for Pete's sake!

On top that, one thing that Dilfer mentioned in the Arizona game is that by shutting down the run, a defense can force its opponent into known passing situations and then take advantage of them. Dilfer said that that is what Arizona specifically tries to do on defense. I have been saying that on this forum for over a year now. I was hoping that if some of you guys heard Dilfer say it, you might actually believe it. But the foregoing are several ways that strong NT play can help a pass defense.

Such a NT is usually necessary, but not sufficient by himself for a 3-4 defense to be truly great. ATL just lacks defensive talent overall. Soliai is a B grade two down run stuffer. He is not Jamal in his prime, but he might have been the best true NT on the FA market this offseason. It wasn't as if Wilfork, Poe, Ngata or even Mebane were available.

Our YPC against suggests that teams that make a dedicated effort to run the ball against us will have success doing so. I was stunned that SEA didn't do it. I am really expecting that from KC and SF, two good running teams. I am very concerned that we will have ball control shoved right back in our faces by the 49ers, but that's pretty far down the road. I think that approach gives opponents the best chance to screw our offense and our defense simultaneously.

YUBA...i highlighted your words. First a question, and please answer. Have you watched any ATL game this year other than the Thursday night blowout vs the BUCS? I have. Atlanta gets run down their throat. The only reason the rushing stats are not worse is because it is just as easy to pass against them, and they only played one team that runs as a fair percentage of plays. You point to stats after a few games and think they mean something.....they don't. One outlier skews the test sample. But you are too stubborn or outright mentally imbalanced to realize this. PLS answer if u just look at stats or have watched a game. it is a rhetorical question... I already know the answer. Even though they play some brutal offenses, I will challenge your claim I highlighted above. I will bet 10k against your claim. (Actually your post reads that "right now they have given up less yards (as a raw figure), than anyone else at the end of the season" well of course Einstein, they will have played 12 less games. If you meant their per game stats now or at the end of the season, let me know. Clarify your comment as to their D, because they suck ass and I will GLADLY bet against Atlanta's defense, for 10k, even with a favorable schedule I will even let you weasel it down to "what you meant to say" if not outrageously claimed. I will bet you 500 that they get destroyed on the ground this weekend. Define the terms you find acceptable for being destroyed on the ground.

Seriously, I truly believe you have absolutely no football knowledge other than looking at a stat sheet. The only thing that lies more than statistics is a politician. I can take ANY sample data you give me, provided it is a random sample large enough to make it relevant and create a different mathematical reality than the one proposed. So can anyone with any mathematical skills and half a brain. Stats are used to give a basis to back up what you actually observe in games. They do not define the game, especially ina 16 game unbalanced schedule.

EDIt****** I Guess the 8 rushing TDs against are an anomaly? They come form short yardage, red zone , and big runs. They are far and away leading the league in this category. But hey, try to spin that as you will.

[Steve]

Our run defense is of the same quality as ATL's. We are getting more stops because our pass D is better. We have to make fewer stops because our offense usually controls time of possession. Those things do not mean our run defense is better.

SEA's run average would have mattered if they had equal time of possession. Then, they likely would have killed us. They shot themselves in the foot by not running the ball more--seriously, they had a total of 13 rushing attempts for the game. Their forum (seahawkblue.com) went apeshit over the lack of their use of their vaunted running game in that game.

Not one of our opponents has rushed the ball over 41% (when rounded) of the time against us. They have attacked our comparative strength (pass defense) all year long. I think the weakness in run defense will show up much more clearly if/when somebody actually makes a dedicated effort (more than 50% of offensive plays) to run against us. Just like what happened when the Cowboys and Seahawks played us in the preseason, I think that we may struggle when challenged with a dedicated rushing attack. In addition to working against our defense, I am concerned that that will also limit our offense by lowering our time of possession.

I understand that quick penetrating NTs have value. But just out of curiosity, do you think a smaller, quick NT (let's say like Ratliff in recent years) can play in a two gap scheme?

Our run D is better, because we penetrate and make plays. But even if it wasn't, who would care? I would be fine with the 32nd ranked run D, provided that our D as a whole was strong enough to compensate.

If your aunt had balls she would be your uncle. You can stop the coulda woulda shoulda, since that is just nonsense. Again, we had a team game plan and all 3 phases worked together to win the game. We don't get Time of poss that is so high by accident. We do it by design. IF we don't execute or game plan, we aren't going to win, and that is true of all game plans (and all teams).

The other teams aren't rushing the ball because they fall behind and can't afford to keep running the ball. Even if they could keep pace with us, they would have to stop, because if they took 10 minutes on their drives, and we take 10 minutes, then it depends on who has the ball when, and I will put Rivers up against anyone in that game, especially with our new D.

Again, running teams don't score enough points to keep up with passing teams unless they can stop our offense from scoring. If another team is going to run the ball, can they sustain 15+ play drives (80 yards to go, 4 ypc is a 20 play drive)? Do the math. Not many teams can sustain a drive without stepping on the old crank with the golf shoes. Either they get a holding penalty, or someone misses a block and we tackle a RB for a loss. Again, think of the whole distribution of runs, not just the average, because you are missing the whole picture. You are just so mathematically illiterate it is scary.

Yes, there have been successful 2 gap DL who are smaller and quicker. Jack Youngblood is still just about the best example of a 2 gapper in all of football, and he gave up over 50 pounds to most OL in his day (he was about 230, OT at that time were 280). But he got under the OL with leverage and got under their pads. He was one of the most dominant DL in all of football at the time. And remember, most 2 gap DL give up weight to the OL. How many 2 gap De are there who are 350-360, which is getting to be the size of most OT? And how about all the 2 gapping in 43 D, because even though they mostly 1 gap (but not all), even classic 1 gap D still ask their DL to 2 gap from time to time.

The big thing is that we play a 1 gap 34, which you can see since we rarely play our DL on even alignments. So, why do I give a shit if any of our DL can 2 gap. We don't do it except as a change of pace.