UT - 53 man roster - prediction #1

[Beerman]

Sorry, I don't follow college football at all, so I have no idea what all these abbreviations (FBS, FCS, FCC, FIFO, FFPPTHH) mean. But I do have a set of eyes, and what I saw out of Sorensen last season excites me. He has a lively arm and decent mobility, makes good decisions, and is calm under pressure. I see more to get excited about in Sorensen than I do in a lot of other better known QB prospects. Only time will tell if he develops into anything.

Division 2 basically. The designations got changed recently. It's a much lower level of competition.

The problem is that he was doing those things you mentioned against 3rd string defenses. I suspect a different tune would be whistled around these parts if Sorenson were to start. He likely won't even get many 2nd string snaps this preseason.

[SDFan]

Division 2 basically. The designations got changed recently. It's a much lower level of competition.

The problem is that he was doing those things you mentioned against 3rd string defenses. I suspect a different tune would be whistled around these parts if Sorenson were to start. He likely won't even get many 2nd string snaps this preseason.

actually, I suspect he sees a LOT so they can get a really good idea if he is worth protecting any longer or use the 3rd QB spot elsewhere.

And the tune is Casino Royal.

[Beerman]

actually, I suspect he sees a LOT so they can get a really good idea if he is worth protecting any longer or use the 3rd QB spot elsewhere.

And the tune is Casino Royal.

The flip side of that is that they want to get Clemons more reps since he's the main backup in a new system.

[Formula 21]

Agreed, Clemons should see most of the snaps, at least a half a game. Keep Rivers on the sideline as much as possible. Mathews too. Should Rivers even see the field in ps games 1 and 2? What's there for him to accomplish.

[Beerman]

I think there's something to be said of getting some real game snaps for Rivers. Not more than a series or two though. More than anything I want to see him play with Inman and Reese.

[Yubaking]

How many times do we have to explain this to you? Poe may have played 93% of KC's defensive snaps, but he was not a NT for the majority of those snaps. No matter the name of the player, no matter the position he plays in a base 3-4 defense, in the nickle defense there is no NT. Schematically, there are two DT and two DE. The two best pass rushing DL become your DTs (usually, but not always) and the two OLBs become the DEs. In KC's defense, Poe shifted from NT to DT in the nickle. In our defense, the NT leaves the field and Liuget and Reyes become the DTs. It's such an incredibly simple concept, but you are too hung up on the position the player plays in the base defense! So, Poe played 93% of KC's defensive snaps, but the NT did not play 93% of KC's defensive snaps.



Yes, Geathers is still developing (and Carrethers, assuming he makes the cut, will almost certainly be inactive most weeks), so he will play NT. But, unless Lissemore is injured, he will not play important situations. He will rotate in with the base package here and there to spell Lissemore in situations where, despite being the weakest link, he will not overly expose the defense. For example, if we give up an 80-yard run up the middle on first down, a lot more people failed than Geathers! In the meantime, you give Geathers a chance to develop with real playing time, like we did with youngsters last season, which goes a long way towards a long-term solution.



I do. I don't want some fat slug who takes up a lot of space, is even immoveable, but can't get any penetration. I want someone who can disrupt the pocket and wreak havoc, and it's often the smaller, quicker players who do that. Lissemore is good at getting leverage and penetration, and I am perfectly happy with him at NT.



It's this sort of thinking that leads to me telling you you're stuck in the 1970s. Once upon a time, you were right, but that's no longer true in the modern NFL. The most important players in a 3-4 are the OLBs.



The way to force teams to become one-dimensional is to build up a lead. If we convert more of our long drives into TDs, teams will more often abandon the run and go pass heavy.

I am not sure why you think I am not aware that Poe did not play every snap in a 3-4. I never said he did. I said we need a good NT that can remain on the field. That will help negate the run--even in passing situations. There is such a thing as spreading the defense out with an extra WR and then running from that formation. That possibility needs to be shut down.

When the game result is still in question, it is an important situation. Geathers will get plenty of those types of chances unless we do something to prevent that. Again, if Geathers or Carrethers shows enough in the preseason to demonstrate that he can handle that kind of responsibility, then I will change my view. But that has not happened yet. The position is way too important to trust to a developmental player not very far along on his learning curve and we do need insurance for a potential Lissemore injury.

Honestly, I do not know how many times you need to see a situation in which we did not retain quality depth and then the starter gets injured to see the potential problem. Does Ingram ring a bell? It kind of looks like we are doing the same thing at NT this year, having parted company with Franklin after the 2012 season and Thomas after the 2013 season. Instead of the words "Franklin" and "Thomas", substitute in the words "Phillips" and "Barnes" and you can see the similarity. Once was more than enough for me with this type of situation that anyone could see coming 10 miles away. I'll take some quality depth please if it is out there and we can afford it (both of which are fair questions).

I am not sure why you think I am advocating us using a "fat slug". I said a good true NT. Part of the word "good" means that the player is mobile enough to play the position effectively. That's a piss poor straw man you have fashioned. As I have said, Lissemore can hold down the fort at NT, but he is only satisfactory at that position, not good. He could be a good 3-4 DE if given a chance. And there is the injury concern with an undersized player at NT, which Lissemore very, very obviously is.

I am talking about the defense we ran in 2006 and 2007, not the 1970s. Again, that's a piss poor straw man you have fashioned. The whole point of a 3-4 DL, especially the NT, is to occupy blockers so LBs can make plays. A good NT is critical because that forces teams to double or face havoc in the middle. When they double, other players get to make plays. That is 3-4 101.

Shutting down the run makes teams pass in known passing situations, which maximizes the defense's chance to win and get off the field. Look over the last decade or so at the top 3-4 defenses--Steelers, Ravens, Patriots for a while, and us for a while. All of those defenses stuffed the run, forced teams to pass and then pinned their ears back and went after the QB. Those were the disruptive, intimidating monster 3-4 defenses. (I know that the Patriots switched to a 4-3 a number of years ago, but they used to run an effective 3-4 for a number of years.) That's how it is done.

Teams don't just get to pull a big lead out of their ass. How teams get a big lead is to score and stop their opponent from scoring on enough occasions to build up a difference over the course of a number of possessions. Stopping the run makes teams one-dimensional. Knowing what's coming helps defenses to win time and again. And that's how teams get to the big lead. Example after example of the best 3-4 defenses shows us that process repeating itself.

The chant of "You can't run!" blasting over and over again from the west end zone in 2006 let us know all about that. The pass defense was not even all that great and still the defense was absolutely intimidating. It was a thing of beauty. When the run got stopped, the defense tore after the QB like a bats out of hell on second down. Jamal was still on the field, so teams weren't so fast to cross us up with running plays. Then, on third and long, Jamal would come off because it didn't matter even if the opponent did cross us up as the good run would not typically be enough for a first down--so many three and outs. It was a sound strategy and the Wade Phillips philosophy that a QB can't hurt you if he is laying flat on his back led to us leading the NFL in sacks. To me, there is no sense in playing the 3-4 if the team is not going to take that kind of approach which was common to our best 3-4 defense, and those of the "Blitzburg" Steelers and the Ravens.

[Beerman]

You seem to think Poe/Ngata type players grow on trees because those are the only type of players that can do what you are suggesting. They are top 15 picks and are pretty rare. I'm fairly sure every single poster here would love to have them, it's just not the reality we live in.

Even the teams you mentioned - Casey Hampton was a top 20 pick, Vince Wilfork was the 21st pick.

[Yubaking]

You seem to think Poe/Ngata type players grow on trees because those are the only type of players that can do what you are suggesting. They are top 15 picks and are pretty rare. I'm fairly sure every single poster here would love to have them, it's just not the reality we live in.

Even the teams you mentioned - Casey Hampton was a top 20 pick, Vince Wilfork was the 21st pick.

I get that they are rare. I am not saying we are going to get such a player off the street for this year. But I am tired of this "NT is not important" nonsense. For now, unless Geathers and Carrethers are ready to produce in games, we really do need an established veteran NT as a reserve for Lissemore and a starting option in case of a Lissemore injury. The parallel with NT this year and OLB last year is eerie. We need quality depth if we can get it. And during the offseason next year, we need to bite the bullet and get a #1 NT of the future as I doubt that player is on our roster right now. Frankly, we should have done that last year, especially if we were going to let Garay (too much $$$), Franklin and Thomas walk in just two years.

[Yubaking]

Yes, you left no doubt last year that you do not believe in player development. Why on earth would we want to protect and develop a young player with promise when we could set aside a roster spot for a different player who will still be inactive every week? Unless Sorensen plays so poorly the team they no longer thinks his potential is all that, he will make the final cut.

What in the hell are you talking about?! Promise?! What promise?! Okay, I promise you that on Sorenson's best day ever he is nothing more than a reserve QB in the NFL. I promise you he will never see the field for us in a real game. Never. I promise you reserve QBs are a dime a dozen. In the extremely unlikely event that both Rivers and Clemens go down, I would much rather face getting a QB off the street at that point than waste a roster spot on Sorenson all season long.

If you think Sorenson has any chance to be our #1 QB of the future, you are mistaken. If that happens, we might as well start wearing black uniforms, calling ourselves the Raiders and repeating the mantra that there is always next year while we perennially finish in the cellar. Somebody needs to be shot if we return to the likes of Friesz, Whelihan, and Laufenberg as our starting QB, which is probably a better state of affairs than would be the case with Sorenson as our starter.

When it comes time to get a replacement for Rivers, we had better use a top draft pick on that QB and do so at least two years before that sad day when we have to say so long to Rivers so the QB can develop. You see, I have no problem with the smart development of players. My problem is with stupid player personnel decisions that leave us short of quality depth and only one injury away from having real problems at the position like we faced with OLB last year and stand to face with NT this year absent the emergence of one of the young NTs, which seems unlikely for this year given the normal time it takes to develop NTs.

Note that I am not suggesting we dump either Geathers or Carrethers. They can develop, but we are trying to win now, so their development needs to be such that it will not compromise our chances to win. So, they shouldn't play until they are ready. If we can get a solid #2 NT to buy some time for them to develop, that would be great.

And how on earth do you think the #2 NT that I am proposing the team add to its roster is going to be inactive?! Your assertion makes no sense. Barring injury, that player will be active every single week.

It is Sorenson that should never be active or on the roster.

[Beerman]

I get that they are rare. I am not saying we are going to get such a player off the street for this year. But I am tired of this "NT is not important" nonsense. For now, unless Geathers and Carrethers are ready to produce in games, we really do need an established veteran NT as a reserve for Lissemore and a starting option in case of a Lissemore injury. The parallel with NT this year and OLB last year is eerie. We need quality depth if we can get it. And during the offseason next year, we need to bite the bullet and get a #1 NT of the future as I doubt that player is on our roster right now. Frankly, we should have done that last year, especially if we were going to let Garay (too much $$$), Franklin and Thomas walk in just two years.

You are likely going to be disappointed again. I suspect we go with a 1st round pass rusher next year to replace JJ/Freeney. Potentially LT if Dunlap isn't retained.

Lissemore, Carrethers, and Geathers are the future at the position for better or worse.

[oneinchpunch]

I get that they are rare. I am not saying we are going to get such a player off the street for this year. But I am tired of this "NT is not important" nonsense. For now, unless Geathers and Carrethers are ready to produce in games, we really do need an established veteran NT as a reserve for Lissemore and a starting option in case of a Lissemore injury. The parallel with NT this year and OLB last year is eerie. We need quality depth if we can get it. And during the offseason next year, we need to bite the bullet and get a #1 NT of the future as I doubt that player is on our roster right now. Frankly, we should have done that last year, especially if we were going to let Garay (too much $$$), Franklin and Thomas walk in just two years.

I read an entire Yuba post. That might be a first.

And it made more sense than most of the posts I've read this offseason(I haven't read many of these chargers.com posts)

[sandiego17]

I read an entire Yuba post. That might be a first.

And it made more sense than most of the posts I've read this offseason(I haven't read many of these chargers.com posts)

Even the Thomas part?