Offensive Line Discussion

[wu-dai clan]

Huh? Too far deep for me.

The teams mentioned had numerous picks. They more or less successfully invested in Oline, as well as other positions.

Indy and Atlanta are examples of teams that invested heavily in Oline, and did not make the playoffs.

Then I was lectured about "the narrative not fitting." LOL. Which narrative does not fit ?

[powderblueboy]

The teams mentioned had numerous picks. They more or less successfully invested in Oline, as well as other positions.

Indy and Atlanta are examples of teams that invested heavily in Oline, and did not make the playoffs.

Then I was lectured about "the narrative not fitting." LOL. Which narrative does not fit ?

Marty Schottenheimer always seemed to find 5 guys that would work. Don Coryell too, although he seemed to inherit some great offensive lines.

Ever since Hardwick went down, it just seems to me that Telesco and coaching staffs have not done a good job in assessing what they need
and what would work. Schottenheimer would go with a mix of veterans and youth, slotting the veterans in judicious locations to steady the young players.
Telesco puts a lot of inexperienced players out on a limb.

Since the center position has been so unstable under Telesco, they haven't been able to build outward. Bad luck has hindered them too: not just Okung's injury, but Chris Watt's and Forrest Lamp's....hell, even Johnnie Troutman's.

Max Tuerk, bad knees and slight in stature, was a risk they couldn't afford.

[wu-dai clan]

Marty Schottenheimer always seemed to find 5 guys that would work. Don Coryell too, although he seemed to inherit some great offensive lines.

Ever since Hardwick went down, it just seems to me that Telesco and coaching staffs have not done a good job in assessing what they need
and what would work. Schottenheimer would go with a mix of veterans and youth, slotting the veterans in judicious locations to steady the young players.
Telesco puts a lot of inexperienced players out on a limb.

Since the center position has been so unstable under Telesco, they haven't been able to build outward. Bad luck has hindered them too: not just Okung's injury, but Chris Watt's and Forrest Lamp's....hell, even Johnnie Troutman's.

Max Tuerk, bad knees and slight in stature, was a risk they couldn't afford.

Thank you for this post. You get to the heart of this matter. Going all the way back to McNeill, Dielman and Hardwick, and the end of their careers, it has been an issue.

There is too much of a shallow, smartpants vibe to many, many of the Oline comments.

Mix in a little substance.

[jamrock]

Thank you for this post. You get to the heart of this matter. Going all the way back to McNeill, Dielman and Hardwick, and the end of their careers, it has been an issue.

There is too much of a shallow, smartpants vibe to many, many of the Oline comments.

Mix in a little substance.

Will be interesting to see if Pipkens has progressed at all tomorrow. He gets the start ahead of Scott if Okung can’t go which I think is the case.

[Boltnut]

Queensbury is an example of the O-line depth chart that paid off pretty well, due to Pouncey's injury. He was pushed into service before the usual years of being in development as a standby.
Queensbury played RG in college too. Very decent 5th round pick. Not been in the know about how Schofield played this year at RG. Besides LG Feeney and RG Schofield, Ryan Groy is all there is at both LG and RG backup. Scary. I wonder how Groy would do if one of those two went down before the end of this season.

I'm not an offensive lineman guru. How has Feeney and Schofield performed this season? If Schofield played well, wouldn't that leave a log jam next year (Queenbury shifted to RG)? Also, regarding Queensbury playing center well with a healthy Pouncey,, that leaves a log jam at center too?

I think the jury is out on Quessenbury. He played well in some games and not well in others. I'd definitely keep him for depth... there is nothing wrong with depth people! Especially if that depth was obtained with a 5th round pick.

Schofield has had time to develop. And yet he is still a below-average RG. $4.5 million for a below-average guard that may/may not show any more improvement is not how I'd spend my money.
I like Dan Feeney coming out of college... he was actually one of my draft targets. But he has been a very poor pass protector. NFL stunts seem to baffle this guy. This was his 3rd year already. He's got 1 more year left on his contract. Let him again compete for one of the guard positions. If he doesn't vastly improve in his pass blocking... time to move on. If he does vastly improve... then of course extend him. Again, quality depth is a good thing... and IOL should not cost an arm and a leg. If that's what they want, move on and draft accordingly.

Hoping that Pouncey and Okung can stay healthy is just a bad plan... especially when your depth is so... bad, raw, developing (use whatever adjective you'd like).

[Boltnut]

Trades and Supplemental Draft picks are major components here.

That's not how LAC rolls.

And talk about Indy,
so long as you are making a list.

Don't cherry pick facts.

Here are the facts:

1. Ravens, 49ers, Texans, Saints, Chiefs, Cowboys, Patriots are all 1st in their division.
2. Every single one of them has a 1st round pick @ OT.
3. Most drafted and retained those OT's.
4. Some of these teams (Packers, Saints, Ravens) found some great OT's in 3rd/4th rounds that ended up being 1st round talent. Packers and Ravens drafted them even AFTER they had 1st rounders in place. Saints had a 1st round caliber OT in Armstead and still drafted a 1st round OT opposite him. Chiefs had a 1st round OT but still signed Mitchell Schwartz opposite him.
5. One of the SB contenders had 2 first round OT's (49ers).

These teams get it... to win at a high level, you need a high level OL. And their IOL's are also littered with guys they drafted (some of them high picks).

Indy isn't all that bad. They play in a brutal division against teams that ALSO have very strong OL's. Atlanta drafted an OG to play OT (McGary)... sound familiar...? If they go all Chargers (gun shy) about moving McGary inside to guard and don't replace him with a real OT, they will continue to be bad.

Hoping and having are not the same thing. There is no cherry picking here.

[wu-dai clan]

Here are the facts:

1. Ravens, 49ers, Texans, Saints, Chiefs, Cowboys, Patriots are all 1st in their division.
2. Every single one of them has a 1st round pick @ OT. In less than a year, Trey Pipkins will be better than Eric Fisher. You did not like Mike McGlinchey, Ronnie Stanley or Ryan Ramczyk, for starters.
3. Most drafted and retained those OT's.
4. Some of these teams (Packers, Saints, Ravens) found some great OT's in 3rd/4th rounds that ended up being 1st round talent. Packers and Ravens drafted them even AFTER they had 1st rounders in place. Saints had a 1st round caliber OT in Armstead and still drafted a 1st round OT opposite him. Chiefs had a 1st round OT but still signed Mitchell Schwartz opposite him.
5. One of the SB contenders had 2 first round OT's (49ers).

These teams get it... to win at a high level, you need a high level OL. And their IOL's are also littered with guys they drafted (some of them high picks).

Indy isn't all that bad. They play in a brutal division against teams that ALSO have very strong OL's. Atlanta drafted an OG to play OT (McGary)... sound familiar...? If they go all Chargers (gun shy) about moving McGary inside to guard and don't replace him with a real OT, they will continue to be bad.

Hoping and having are not the same thing. There is no cherry picking here.

Compensatory picks and trades enabled teams you mentioned to draft multiple Olinemen, including busts, plus address other positions. SF drafted Joshua Garnett and Brandon Thomas as examples.

Complementary football means that overall Oline performance and individual Oline performance is affected by a teams having fewer weaknesses at other positions.

Do you remember pacstud talking about the importance of us getting out to an early lead in games this year ?

Get behind and opponents pass rushers tee off.

There is no doubt that you have football knowledge, but I have observed numerous occasions where you have emphasized SOME of the truth to support a wild, wild narrative.

Maybe you can post a mock draft with several trade downs, and five or six or even seven Olinemen drafted.

I am trying to do you a favor...reel it in Bubba.

Truthfully you have not convinced me at all that you have a good idea here or a likely to happen idea, to, once again per your familiar narrative, perform an extreme makeover of the Oline.



Frankly the general tone and substance of this entire board is sadly lacking right now, because there is a general lack of honesty or willingness to have a legitimate back and forth.

Winning or losing a debate does nothing for others who read posts.

What a lost opportunity--we could have an actual discussion about the merits of real draft ideas, somewhere near reality.

Good, informed posts get lost amongst the junk.

People are not willing to acknowledge that there are various levels of football knowledge.

[Boltnut]

I did like Stanley, McGlinchy, and Ramcyk. The only reservation I had with Ramcyk was the hip injury he had pre-draft. You know this. I've stated this many, many times.

[wu-dai clan]

I did like Stanley, McGlinchy, and Ramcyk. The only reservation I had with Ramcyk was the hip injury he had pre-draft. You know this. I've stated this many, many times.

Crickets when I mentioned alternative drafting of Stanley-Chris Jones-Austin Hooper 1-2-3 vs Bosa-Henry-Tuerk.

McGlinchey, you said, was deficient in Pass Pro.

You red flagged Ramczyk for his hip. Meanwhile, I did the medical research, and deduced that we ought to seriously consider drafting him. Nobody listened to a damn word I said. Crickets again. Condescension from the clueless themselves.

Draft capital should not be just thrown at the Big Fatties of the week. Ditto cap space. Hang on to all assets at Oline because it's a damn good idea.

Ah screw it. Let's go get Jack Conklin. No seriously, you are right there-LET'S GET CONKLIN...and a big back like Najee Harris.

Change our offensive profile ftw.

[Steve]

The fact that FA OL rarely pan out seems to being left out of the discussion.

Give a guy a huge contract, and you might as well pile the dollar bills up in the street and burn it. In some ways that would be even more useful way to go, since at least that is a one time expense, while FA busts hurt for years to come. All this is even more true for overpaying many of these so-so guys with huge question marks. FA signings give the illusion of filling holes, without the satisfaction of accomplishing anything. Better to keep the guys we have than go the FA route.

[Steve]

All I want is one year super bowl champion, I dont want a dinasty, I dont care if we mortgage the future, I dont care if after that we would have 10 bad years, we are used to that,all I want is one change.

I think we could that next year if we really wanted to.... all we need to do is mortgage our future by investing in the trenches....

The problem with mortgaging the future is so many things can de-rail the attempt. Injuries. Other teams get hot. Teams get full of themselves (which seems to have happened this year). .... The only really serious way to do it is to keep reloading on the fly, with a sustainable system for finding and developing players. That HAS to be the #1 goal of EVERY NFL team.

[wu-dai clan]

Well put Steve !

I would like to add something a little off kilter.

There is nobody who does not understand the importance of Oline, or "the trenches." Yet there are those who try to "virtue signal" or gain "instant football cred" by merely mentioning fix the Oline.

If these forum contributors really wanted to fix the Oline, they would have studied every Oline prospect from here to Valdosta State for the last ten years.

Instead, those of us who put in the work (and still only bat about .333,) get treated to a non stop chorus of repetition and inappropriate condescension.

People who do not know what they are talking about, talk too much. Hey, there are those here who have great football backgrounds, and that ought to be taken into consideration, while having an enjoyable exchange of ideas.

Nobody needs to kiss anybodys ass Maybe someone can just take a roll of duck tape and wrap it around the beaks of these parrots.

IMHO.