Rivers PFW Comeback Player of the Year

[Heatmiser]

This is for the Pro Football Writers so its not the award thats recognized as the top. That would be the AP.

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Reminds me of going to Atlantic City with my Father in law and Brother in law. We had very little money, seldom won. My brother in law hits on the poker machine for over $1200. We are ecstatic, waiting for the attendant to come and pay him off. A lady walks over, noticing all our hoopla. "How much did you win?" we tell her. "Oh, I thought it was a big prize." Then she sneers and walks off.

What Rivers won is still meaningful. Associated Press is still a bunch of reporters.

TG

[oneinchpunch]

Reminds me of going to Atlantic City with my Father in law and Brother in law. We had very little money, seldom won. My brother in law hits on the poker machine for over $1200. We are ecstatic, waiting for the attendant to come and pay him off. A lady walks over, noticing all our hoopla. "How much did you win?" we tell her. "Oh, I thought it was a big prize." Then she sneers and walks off.

What Rivers won is still meaningful. Associated Press is still a bunch of reporters.

TG

I'm saying it more in Allen's case where I still hope to see him as ROY

[sandiego17]

Rivers is right. The award is an insult to him as it says that his performance was "poor" in 2012. Rivers' performance was good (above league average) in 2012 even before we reach the issue of the degree of the difficulty facing him at that time, and great (top 2-5) this year. I would be pretty pissed off about receiving the award if I were in his shoes.

Sums it up pretty well. I never believed rivers was anything less than what he is, a great player.

[KNSD]

Exactly. What did he come back from?

"Norv Hell" (much worse than regular hell, btw)

[homeless simpson]

Nobody is disputing that Rivers had a significantly better year than he did in the previous season just like nobody would dispute that Peyton Manning had a significantly better year this year than he did last year, but we aren't considering Peyton Manning for comeback player of the year, are we? It is the same concept.

using your same concept, Mathews had a better year in 2011 than 2010, and better 2013 than 2012. that doesn't really scream comeback player, that sounds a lot more like Breakout Player or inconsistent player.

Further, it is total performance that matters, not 4th quarter performance. Your reference to that is just a red herring. What a QB does overall in games matters. When he does it DOES NOT MATTER AT ALL! A TD scored in the second quarter counts just as much as one scored in the 4th quarter. I have checked the rulebook on this and it says nothing about 4th quarter TDs counting more than first quarter TDs.

last i checked, playing lousy in the 4th qrtr makes you a Tony Romo or ****ler type player. so 4th qrtr performance is not a red herring.

There was no career resurgence, just an improved OL and a better scheme that allowed Rivers to improve from being a top one-third QB to being a top 5 QB. That is not that much of an improvement, not in the context of Comeback Player of the Year.

that's pretty much the context of Comeback Player of the Year. His play came back to being a top 5 qb. how is that not hard to understand? other factors outside of just stats (when the awardee isn't injured) involves how well their team fares, like the example I've given of Kitna and Brees....Brees had a breakout year from being a nobody, but leading the Chargers back to the playoffs in nearly a decade factored in his winning the award. Kitna didn't have that drastic an improvement statistically either and his team didn't even make the playoffs, but he was awarded because Cinci finally got to a .500 season record after being awful since the 90s. On top of getting back to being a top 5 qb, we got back to the playoffs after a 3 year absence. it isn't always about stats, unless of course you're a stat whore.
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Mathews, on the other hand, went from being a top 10 rusher in 2011 with 1,091 yards in just 14 games, a 4.9 YPC average, and 6 TDs to just 707 yards, a 3.8 YPC average, and just one TD in a season marred by two broken collar bones in 2012. This year, he bounced back in a career year in terms of rushing yards and games played, posting 1,255 yards, a 4.4 YPC average and 6 TDs. That is much more of an improvement than Rivers had and it involves coming back from injury and from a poor season, neither of which applied to Rivers, who did not have a below league average season in any relevant season just as Peyton Manning did not despite having a much better year this year than in the previous season.

Most Improved Player isn't the same as Comeback Player.

Finally, your questioning of Rivers' integrity in terms of your construction of his comment as meaning that he didn't realize that the award didn't have to involve a player coming off of injury is itself questionable. First, from the comments in this thread, Rivers did not appear to say that he was unaware that the award could be given for a player not returning from injury, just that the concept of a player returning from injury is the concept that he thinks of when he thinks of the award. He may have been perfectly aware that it could be given to a player returning from a perceived poor performance from the year before.

Moreover, even if Rivers meant that he was unaware that a player that was uninjured the year before could receive the award, do you think it might be possible for someone to forget the application of a set of criteria to a player almost a decade ago in a situation involving in part a period of time in which Rivers was not even on the team with respect to an award that Rivers does not seem to care about that much? It is possible. Neither of us knows the answer to that question, so it is wrong to question his integrity, especially in the face of the fact that Rivers is among the highest character guys in the whole league. He has more than earned any benefit of the doubt with respect to that.

Rivers is right. The award is an insult to him as it says that his performance was "poor" in 2012. Rivers' performance was good (above league average) in 2012 even before we reach the issue of the degree of the difficulty facing him at that time, and great (top 2-5) this year. I would be pretty pissed off about receiving the award if I were in his shoes.

you can bitch about it all you want of whether it was insulting or not, or who deserved it better etc. that doesn't change the fact that he's PFW's Comeback Player of The Year. as they say in football, scoreboard motherfucker

[sandiego17]

Subjective scoreboard, motherfucker. Not nearly the same as scoreboard in football.

[Panama]

the qb ratings don't include fumbles, which he had a lot of.

I don't know why anybody would actually be surprised he won a comeback player of the year award. can you name another player in the league that would have deserved it this past season?

Tongue-in-cheek answer: Peyton Manning
Serious answer: Alex Smith

[Yubaking]

using your same concept, Mathews had a better year in 2011 than 2010, and better 2013 than 2012. that doesn't really scream comeback player, that sounds a lot more like Breakout Player or inconsistent player.



last i checked, playing lousy in the 4th qrtr makes you a Tony Romo or ****ler type player. so 4th qrtr performance is not a red herring.



that's pretty much the context of Comeback Player of the Year. His play came back to being a top 5 qb. how is that not hard to understand? other factors outside of just stats (when the awardee isn't injured) involves how well their team fares, like the example I've given of Kitna and Brees....Brees had a breakout year from being a nobody, but leading the Chargers back to the playoffs in nearly a decade factored in his winning the award. Kitna didn't have that drastic an improvement statistically either and his team didn't even make the playoffs, but he was awarded because Cinci finally got to a .500 season record after being awful since the 90s. On top of getting back to being a top 5 qb, we got back to the playoffs after a 3 year absence. it isn't always about stats, unless of course you're a stat whore.
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Most Improved Player isn't the same as Comeback Player.




you can bitch about it all you want of whether it was insulting or not, or who deserved it better etc. that doesn't change the fact that he's PFW's Comeback Player of The Year. as they say in football, scoreboard motherfucker

Mathews broke out in 2011 with over 1,000 yards rushing and a high YPC. Up to that point he had done nothing from which to come back. So your reference to his 2010 performance is misplaced in the context of Comeback Player of the Year.

Your 4th quarter performance discussion is not even logical. If you fix total performance over the whole game (what I say matters), it does not matter at all when the QB makes the plays that he makes. You are not changing the total results--they are fixed. You are just changing the order of the results. The order does not matter.

Your discussion reminds me of bozos that think Shitli Manning is a good QB because he makes a lot of 4th quarter comebacks in Giants wins. Of course, nowhere in their thought process is any consideration regarding why Shitli needed to make a comeback at all, which is most often because he played like dog manure for the first three quarters in a game that wouldn't even be up for grabs if a better QB (like Rivers) were playing in his place.

And your reference to Romo and Cutler is hilarious as Romo and Cutler are, of course, two very dissimilar QBs in terms of their total performance (you know, what actually matters). Romo is an excellent QB that is very underrated. Cutler is an average QB period, who does some things well and other things not very well. Perhaps nowhere is the huge difference in the quality of these two QBs more evident than in the area of QB ratings, not just in terms of career ratings in which there is a huge 11.2 rating points difference, but also in each individual season's ratings. Cutler has not ever had a single season rating of 90 or higher. Romo, on the other hand, has never had a single season with a QB rating below 90.5 (which is a pretty darn good accomplishment over eight years as a starter). There is no overlap at all between the QBs in eight starting seasons for each player--none. Cutler's best season is worse than Romo's worst season. Your lumping of the two QBs together is about as useful as saying that both players have brown hair.

Contrary to your suggestion, in most cases, a player is what his numbers say he is. And you prevent people from making idiotic decisions by making it about the numbers otherwise voters are free to decide based upon whatever they want, such as their secret dreams of how each player would look in leather underwear or such other unwarranted criteria that you must value to think that Rivers is somehow deserving of this award.

Your reference to past award recipients is unimpressive as well. If the voters can be idiots once, they can be idiots more than once. Voters named Shitli Manning Super Bowl MVP twice when he did nothing to warrant either award. Hell, voters voted Shitli Manning to three Pro Bowls, Shitli Manning! Voters failed to award Rivers the MVP in 2008 and did not even vote him to the Pro Bowl that year. Voters failed to award Merriman the DPOY award in 2006. The result of a vote has nothing whatsoever to with a scoreboard. One is an objective number based upon objectively measurable events. The other is reflective of the often unjustifiable opinions of individuals.

All of that said, your apparent happiness at the fact that our QB has been slapped in the face by receiving this award is duly noted.

[Yubaking]

Tongue-in-cheek answer: Peyton Manning
Serious answer: Alex Smith

Smith is a better call than Rivers as he did come back from being replaced, but his performance was only middle of the pack this year overall, notwithstanding a strong TD/INT ratio.

The more I think about Mathews, the more I think that he would have been a very good choice for the award. DeSean Jackson also came back from a down season a year ago to post huge numbers this year.

[Panama]

Smith is a better call than Rivers as he did come back from being replaced, but his performance was only middle of the pack this year overall, notwithstanding a strong TD/INT ratio.

The more I think about Mathews, the more I think that he would have been a very good choice for the award. DeSean Jackson also came back from a down season a year ago to post huge numbers this year.

(1) I agree that Mathews (and plenty of others) would have made good candidates for the award.

(2) Smith's stats may not be as eye-popping as some of the elite QBs, but he "came back" from a team giving up on him (benching and trade) to leading last year's worst team to the best start of any team this season and a playoff berth. That's quite a comeback, irrespective of passing stats.

[Wheels]

Nobody is disputing that Rivers had a significantly better year than he did in the previous season just like nobody would dispute that Peyton Manning had a significantly better year this year than he did last year, but we aren't considering Peyton Manning for comeback player of the year, are we? It is the same concept.

Rivers was the 11th ranked QB in 2012 and he managed to accomplish that despite getting zero OL protection at all and having the worst play caller in the league calling plays for him. He had 26 TDs and 15 INTs. For all the talk of Rivers committing turnovers, the 15 INTs was only 10th highest in the league. His 26 TDs was 9th in the league in 2012. While Rivers has had better years, his year was better than that of two-thirds of the QBs in the league under the most trying of circumstances.

Also, many of Rivers' turnovers were not his fault. How many times did we see Rivers' receivers not go to the ball? Meachem was the worst at that. He would sit there and watch defenders break on balls and not move toward them at all. Royal was pretty bad at that as well in 2012. It got better after Alexander joined the team. And almost all of the fumbles are on the OL. Rivers' blind side was the worst protected in the league. He was constantly getting hit as he was dropping back, being stuck with plays that took way too long to develop.

Further, it is total performance that matters, not 4th quarter performance. Your reference to that is just a red herring. What a QB does overall in games matters. When he does it DOES NOT MATTER AT ALL! A TD scored in the second quarter counts just as much as one scored in the 4th quarter. I have checked the rulebook on this and it says nothing about 4th quarter TDs counting more than first quarter TDs.

There was no career resurgence, just an improved OL and a better scheme that allowed Rivers to improve from being a top one-third QB to being a top 5 QB. That is not that much of an improvement, not in the context of Comeback Player of the Year.

Mathews, on the other hand, went from being a top 10 rusher in 2011 with 1,091 yards in just 14 games, a 4.9 YPC average, and 6 TDs to just 707 yards, a 3.8 YPC average, and just one TD in a season marred by two broken collar bones in 2012. This year, he bounced back in a career year in terms of rushing yards and games played, posting 1,255 yards, a 4.4 YPC average and 6 TDs. That is much more of an improvement than Rivers had and it involves coming back from injury and from a poor season, neither of which applied to Rivers, who did not have a below league average season in any relevant season just as Peyton Manning did not despite having a much better year this year than in the previous season.

Finally, your questioning of Rivers' integrity in terms of your construction of his comment as meaning that he didn't realize that the award didn't have to involve a player coming off of injury is itself questionable. First, from the comments in this thread, Rivers did not appear to say that he was unaware that the award could be given for a player not returning from injury, just that the concept of a player returning from injury is the concept that he thinks of when he thinks of the award. He may have been perfectly aware that it could be given to a player returning from a perceived poor performance from the year before.

Moreover, even if Rivers meant that he was unaware that a player that was uninjured the year before could receive the award, do you think it might be possible for someone to forget the application of a set of criteria to a player almost a decade ago in a situation involving in part a period of time in which Rivers was not even on the team with respect to an award that Rivers does not seem to care about that much? It is possible. Neither of us knows the answer to that question, so it is wrong to question his integrity, especially in the face of the fact that Rivers is among the highest character guys in the whole league. He has more than earned any benefit of the doubt with respect to that.

Rivers is right. The award is an insult to him as it says that his performance was "poor" in 2012. Rivers' performance was good (above league average) in 2012 even before we reach the issue of the degree of the difficulty facing him at that time, and great (top 2-5) this year. I would be pretty pissed off about receiving the award if I were in his shoes.

He got the award for returning to his previous baseline production. His production had dropped off the last several years, and people were asking questions about whether or not he was broken. Returning to that baseline of excellence is indeed a comeback. I get why Rivers is taking it as a backhanded compliment, but it's obvious why he was chosen.

[Beerman]

Much ado about nothing