Larry English done

[SDFan]

I agree that AJ should have tried to get something for those guys but its not that simple. Teams don't usually trade for a guy thats going to be a FA at the end of the year unless they know they can sign him to a long term contract. He had a deal on the table for VJ and I think he should have taken it. He blew that one for sure. For Turner why would a team give up a pick for a guy thats entering FA? Sproles had a franchise tag on him requiring a team to give up 1 or 2 high picks for a guy they may not be able to sign at the end of the year. Why give up picks when you can just wait until a guy enters FA and try to sign him?

I just don't think it was as easy as most people think it is or should have been.

well said. only quibble is I don't think you can hang the VJ deal failure 100% on AJ either. There were multiple reports that VJ's agent was saying 1 thing to the press to pressure AJ into the trade, but behind the scenes sticking to his unreasonable demand for VJ to get a new Marshall value contract. THAT blew up the trade, not whether compensation would be a 1st or 2nd round pick. Final pick was never agreed to because they Vikings couldn't afford the contract demands and backed out.

[Bolt-O]

Should have burned the Turner on his 'contract' year when he was here. He left with too much tread on the tire. Norv, the offensive genius, couldn't figure out how to get LT and Turner on the field at the same time, while it was obvious to put LT into the slot.

Sorry to extend this thread on the failures of AJ and Norv...

[SDFan]

The Vincent Jackson deal as mention was on the table, absolutely no reason not to get that deal done especially knowing AJ wasn't going to offer him a serious offer to stay.

Micheal Turner was viewed by the league as a starter problem he was playing behind LT in his prime, there was a demand for Turner and AJ should of worked to get that deal done and get better than a 4th round pick, I believe we could of got at least a third round pick or player(s).

I'll give you the Sproles would of been a really hard trade to pull off, if not impossible because he was Franchised and the compensation would be a 1& 3, and Sproles is explosive, but he isn't an every down back. We found this out when LT went down, Sproles started one game and was great, the following week not so great from the physical pounding.

what game did Sproles start where he was great subbing for injured LT? All I remember was the playoff game in Pitt where LT was announced as out far in advance- and we had a healthy Michael Bennett sitting there all season waitng to be used in exactly that situation. Instead NOrv decided to start Sproles and he completely got stuffed and we went most of 1/2 never touching the ball because we couldn't move the offense with Sproles as "feature" back instead of the 3rd down back.

BTW: I believe THAT particular personnel blunder by NOrv removed any doubt he was NOT the guy to lead us anywhere near a Super Bowl run and was the turning point for the AJ regime that set the downward spiral into motion and should have been the final nail in NOrv's coffin as our head coach. The team never recovered from that.

[QSmokey]

And this is a bad thing because...?

LOL! Go back and read the 8,653 posts explaining that.

[Panama]

LOL! Go back and read the 8,653 posts explaining that.

And rehash poorly made arguments? No, thanks. Mathews is definitely a valuable (even Pro Bowl) back. His only real shortcoming is that he's not LT, and we got used to expecting LT-like greatness from the RB position. Whoever follows Mathews will have an easier time being accepted here, as time has passed.

[BoltBalls]

And this is a bad thing because...?

At this point I would say it is a bad thing because Mathews wasn't worth trading up for and we could certainly have used that 2nd round pick for another player. I was advocating Ben Tate in round 2 in that 2010 draft and a defensive player in the first. Miami got Jared Odrick with our original pick, and he has been solid. We will see how he plays against us on Sunday...

[SDFan]

At this point I would say it is a bad thing because Mathews wasn't worth trading up for and we could certainly have used that 2nd round pick for another player. I was advocating Ben Tate in round 2 in that 2010 draft and a defensive player in the first. Miami got Jared Odrick with our original pick, and he has been solid. We will see how he plays against us on Sunday...

too much Hindsight in your analysis and you can't evaluate the run up to that draft in a vacuum. We didn't need "another player" in the 1st- we needed another LT (or at least the closest RB skill-set wise we could) to fill the hole at feature back. You must consider the type of offense NOrv ran and his inputs on your draft. Remembering back to pre-draft reports on the top RBs likely to go in the 1st, only Mathews came close to LT's skill set and durability was not thought to be an issue like it was with Best & Spiller. Add in that Mathews was a home-grown, feel good story and played in a Pro style offense, and the decision was easy. The 2nd rounder used was found money. AJ did what he thought he had to do to get the right player or risk another team taking him 1st like what happened in other drafts. Mathews stats still compare favorably to the other 2 top RB prospects in that draft, even with his injuries, and to me that's how the pick should be judged- not vs. some other mystery player AJ could have selected.

[BoltBalls]

too much Hindsight in your analysis and you can't evaluate the run up to that draft in a vacuum. We didn't need "another player" in the 1st- we needed another LT (or at least the closest RB skill-set wise we could) to fill the hole at feature back. You must consider the type of offense NOrv ran and his inputs on your draft. Remembering back to pre-draft reports on the top RBs likely to go in the 1st, only Mathews came close to LT's skill set and durability was not thought to be an issue like it was with Best & Spiller. Add in that Mathews was a home-grown, feel good story and played in a Pro style offense, and the decision was easy. The 2nd rounder used was found money. AJ did what he thought he had to do to get the right player or risk another team taking him 1st like what happened in other drafts. Mathews stats still compare favorably to the other 2 top RB prospects in that draft, even with his injuries, and to me that's how the pick should be judged- not vs. some other mystery player AJ could have selected.

You have a point, but at the time I was not high on Mathews if it cost us an additional pick (and solid ST/depth ILB in Tim Dobbins) and was much more interested in the 2nd round RBs of Ben Tate and Toby Gerheart, while selecting another needed defensive player with our round 1 pick. That is what Acee and the UT was also hinting at during that time. It is still hindsight analysis like you said but I didn't agree with the decision at the time and I still don't now after seeing Mathews perform for the past 3 years.

[QSmokey]

And rehash poorly made arguments? No, thanks. Mathews is definitely a valuable (even Pro Bowl) back. His only real shortcoming is that he's not LT, and we got used to expecting LT-like greatness from the RB position. Whoever follows Mathews will have an easier time being accepted here, as time has passed.

Ha! So you saying Mathews only looks bad/not-so-good in comparison to LaDainian Tomlinson? Man, you must not have thought very much of LT. Mathews, poorly made arguments aside, has just looked bad, period.

[OhioBolt]

too much Hindsight in your analysis and you can't evaluate the run up to that draft in a vacuum. We didn't need "another player" in the 1st- we needed another LT (or at least the closest RB skill-set wise we could) to fill the hole at feature back. You must consider the type of offense NOrv ran and his inputs on your draft. Remembering back to pre-draft reports on the top RBs likely to go in the 1st, only Mathews came close to LT's skill set and durability was not thought to be an issue like it was with Best & Spiller. Add in that Mathews was a home-grown, feel good story and played in a Pro style offense, and the decision was easy. The 2nd rounder used was found money. AJ did what he thought he had to do to get the right player or risk another team taking him 1st like what happened in other drafts. Mathews stats still compare favorably to the other 2 top RB prospects in that draft, even with his injuries, and to me that's how the pick should be judged- not vs. some other mystery player AJ could have selected.

I get the disappointment due to the fact we gave up a 2nd and he hasn't produced like we expected, but he is far from what some consider a bust.

1. Bust 1st round Ryan Leaf, Buster Davis, Sammy Davis, and Larry English
2. As SDFan pointed out durability was not thought to be an issue the only back available that went after Mathews were Java Best, Toby Gerhart, and Ben Tate that were worthy of being. Everybody wanted Tate who also has proven to be injury riddled
3. Ryan Mathews has had a 1,000 yard in the 2011 season and the O-line has never been that good and he finished in the Top 10.
4. Look at current backs starting better than Mathews, they would be Adrian Peterson, Arian Foster, LeSean McCoy, Marshawn Lynch, Jamal Charlse, Matt Forte, Frank Gore, and Alfred Morris, given more opportunities Mathews stats would put him up in the Top 10

[SDFan]

You have a point, but at the time I was not high on Mathews if it cost us an additional pick (and solid ST/depth ILB in Tim Dobbins) and was much more interested in the 2nd round RBs of Ben Tate and Toby Gerheart, while selecting another needed defensive player with our round 1 pick. That is what Acee and the UT was also hinting at during that time. It is still hindsight analysis like you said but I didn't agree with the decision at the time and I still don't now after seeing Mathews perform for the past 3 years.

it seemed to me we were going to take a 1st round RB out of neccessity since we had nobody to anchor the offense. I didn't agree with it then either and would have traded for Stephen Jackson or similar RB to fill the workhorse need. Tate & Gerhart were viewed as complimentary backs when we needed a 3 down feature back. Some wanted Dwyer or even Blount, but again none of these other guys had 1st round grades and elite potential. Losing LT after so many great years was a PR blow for the team as well as a production loss, and AJ needed to swing for the fences in that situation.

[thelightningwill]

Actually Norv Turner underused Michael Turner in the runningback's final year with us.

Other fans used to say that Norv Turner was AJ Smith's puppet, and the U-T reporters used to drone on about how AJ Smith and Norv Turner had some sort of bond of understanding. But I didn't see it like that. There were guys who AJ seemed to value that Norv generally had riding the bench. - M. Turner, Hester, and Neal come to mind.

Michael Turner should have been traded earlier because Norv had no intention of making use of him. In the AFC Championship game, when Tomlinson had to take himself out of the game, Rivers was playing way too hurt, and Merriman was jacked up, Michael Turner only got the ball 17
times. Why? We should have run him on almost every play that day and kept that dirty Cheatriots offense off the field. There was no reason to try to save him up.

Wow. I must have been cracked out when I wrote this. This happens when I'm on one of my drunken benders.