Sorry Fellas. Mike McCoy is not the guy.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

In the game day thread almost everyone agrees with you. Only after the game did that change because the team won.

I didn't post in the game thread during the game. But nice try. You do a lot of trying.

[KNSD]

I didn't post in the game thread during the game. But nice try. You do a lot of trying.

Not sure "almost everybody" means just you. Could be wrong though.

[Wheels]

Wheels, were you in Japan?

Howdy Rob,
No I flew over it twice, but went to Philippines for 2 weeks, with a layover in Taiwan, and we visited Hong Kong for 4 days. I'd love to visit Japan someday. I will for sure let you know if/when I make it there.

[oneinchpunch]

Not sure "almost everybody" means just you. Could be wrong though.

Or right.

[BlazingBolt]

The penalty was from the spot of the infraction. That's not spin. But calling it a three yard penalty is spin.



That was the gain prior to the penalty being called. You're really getting in the weeds here.




You're absolutely right absent any context whatsoever.



I don't understand why I should even bother explaining the strategy that was pursued to someone who professes he has never seen an NFL team pursue it at the conclusion of a first half, including his favorite team, which was at one point coached by Marty Schottenheimer.



Apparently not, since you are applying standards from other situations to this one. I'm sorry you're stuck in neutral, dude. But that's a YP.



Ugh. Ok, I'm out. When I've got to remind you of your own points, there's too much burden for me to carry you.

Wow dude, you are really reaching now. I guess thats what happen when I utterly destroyed your entire premise with indisputable logic.

Who flipping cares about the wording or technicalities of the penalty. Only some one grasping at straws. We both know it was a penalty that wiped out the orginal play and set us with 1st and 13 instead of 1st and 10. Whatever happened on the penalized play is entirely irrelevalant to the discussion but you spent half your post harping on this irrelevant point. Can I assume you concede all the points you did not address?

You seize on one point about running on 3 straight plays to overcome a penalty, taken out of context, and then try and make a joke about context? I am laughing at pretty hard at this. I guess you don't understand basic football, if you get a good gain on early downs it puts you at an advantage with run and pass options ad when you don't and you have more yards and less downs your options for picking up a first are much better with a pass. Running on all those plays is pretty clearly an attempt to run the clock out.

And then some jab implying I don't know what I am talking about. Yeah, i see conservative play calling all the time. I see teams trying to run the clock out all the time. What I don't see is some one trying to run the clock out in a fashion that concedes giving their opponent great field position with 1:30 left in a tie game. I think that is a mistake plain and simple and I don't see other conservative coaches doing such a thing. That is just way too much time to concede intentionally.

16 vs 8, I guess you are talking about IF the Mathews play stood and there was no hold on Gates. Doesn't really matter because the 16 yard line is in no way part of the discussion. The discussion is about the foolishness that happened from 1st and 13 onward.

[BlazingBolt]

You stopped reading at "BB is right." Read the rest. I agree with the post in it's entirety. If you want to parse individual sentences, then no.

I read it several times and I agree with it as well. I see nothing harsh about any of it.

Kudos to me for rationally criticizing a mistake even though we won...right?

I do especially like the part where you admit I am right and then repeat as much in subsequent posts.

[Wheels]

I don't know why you guys are arguing so much. BlazingBolt is right. There would be scorn and outrage on this board if the Chargers lost.

But that's reflection of fan irrationality rather than the decision the coach made. We put too much blame on the coach's individual game day choices when a team loses and praise their genius when the team wins.

The real key feature here is that this team has been coached up extremely well this year. Every player from Rivers to Addai has improved tremendously - great coaching job. The talent on this team really is a bit subpar but that's not stopping them from dominating. Amazing stuff, and really fun to watch.

Makes me wonder about AJ's drafting, and how much Norv was (not deliberately) sabotaging AJ's picks. Some of them are now flourishing with the new coaching.

[Steve]

Come on now steve. Running out of time was a perfectly acceptable option, what are you even talking about? It is way more acceptable than punting the ball back to them.

In order to kill the clock we needed a first down.

To me we had a huge momentum play with the Butler strip that was completely wasted by run and punt and give up a FG.

You don't have to run the clock down completely, but if you run the ball several times, you eat off the clock and force the other team to waste their own timeouts. You don't have to use use it all, just enough to prevent the Bengals from having the time they need. Since that is what happened, how is that an issue?

But an incomplete pass would have KILLED us. It stops the clock and gives them a good blitz situation, where if we give up a holding penalty, it's 2 points and gives them the ball back. Running the clock is the best option there, because it takes away the time that Cinci needed to go for the TD. Cinci is one of the best defenses in the league, and our RT was gimpy and we had a backup C making the OL calls. Fluker had an awful game against Dunlap as it was, so that is not a matchup that would have been good for us.

The Butler strip was huge because it denied the Bengals the chance to score a TD initially, then with the runs takes time off the clock, and makes a second TD impossible for them. You could throw, but more bad things can happen then good things can happen.

[Panama]

No timeouts needed. I aint offended.

We can agree to disagree on whether or not we were trying to get a first down. Yeah if a run pops no one is going to not take the first down but it was the same thing as something like Marty vs. the Jets running the ball when we got in to what he felt was FG range. You could argue Marty wasn't being conservative and he was trying to get more yardage or a first down by running the ball but you are just not going to see eye to eye with everyone else who thinks he was just handing the ball off and settling for the long FG try. Its a hand the ball off, don't do anything fancy, and just make dead sure you don't turn the ball over....thats what I think we did (after holding on #85). Gaining yardage or trying to get a first was pretty far down the priority list on those plays..

I think the Chargers were perfectly fine taking a 3 and out along with Cincy's timeouts and punting the ball back to them. That's what it looked like to me, if that makes me a moron in your book that's just fine with me but you are not going to convince me the Chargers were giving their best effort to get a first down after that insurmountable 3 yard penalty (who ever has hope of getting a first down when saddled with 1st and 13? The humanity!). That is what I have a problem with and if you disagree that's what they were doing the conversation can not progress.

In my mind that is the most blatant mistake of the season. It wasn't costly overall but it is more clearly a mistake than even the play calling in Washington at the end of regulation. Again not as big of a deal but more clearly a mistake.

If you agree they were more concerned about making Cincy call timeouts than they were about trying to get a first down than we can discuss further.

And I don't get Steves points at all in post #923. Thrown the ball downfield? Why did they need to that? It was 3 yard penalty, that is one of the smallest penalties you can even get. I was not saying we needed to start throwing bombs downfield, geez. We just needed to be more aggressive in seeking the first down. And this momentum talk is off base. Cincy took the lead at half and was getting the ball first. They did have the momentum at that point and we didn't get it back until we stopped them and went and took the lead in the second half. Arguing that run and punt gave us the momentum at half is not accurate, maybe you had that feeling personally but there is no basis to state that as anything more than your personal feeling.

Yes, we'll have to agree to disagree.

(1) There's a fundamental difference between Marty's playcalling and McCoy's. Marty got to a certain point and then just stopped trying, assuming the long fg would be good. I was a huge Marty fan but he blew that. McCoy on the other hand went with the strategic decision that minimized the chances that a team that had been moving the ball well would score. He wasn't so much settling for a punt as he was making sure that if they didn't pick up a first down they would leave the opponent with as little chance of scoring a TD and reclaiming momentum.

(2) I never claimed that the Chargers had momentum. But they did stop Cincy's momentum big time with the fumble, and their playcalling ensured that Cincy would not be likely to regain it with a TD. Scrambling at the end of the half for a desperation FG does not give them momentum; rather, it leaves them wondering what could have been if they'd managed to get another TD or two and makes them start getting tight because they cannot separate from the underdog.

[BlazingBolt]

Steve I don't see how their is a risk of a safety. 8 yard line or better in this series. Offensive line would have to get pushed back 8 yards and hold in the end zone.

[Steve]

The OL doesn't have to be in the endzone. If they hold out at the 5 yard line and and any part of the ball (Rivers) is in the endzone, it is a safety. A 5 step drop from the 8 yard line would have put Rivers just in front of the endzone, so if he had ducked away from the rush, he is in there.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

I read it several times and I agree with it as well. I see nothing harsh about any of it.

Kudos to me for rationally criticizing a mistake even though we won...right?

I do especially like the part where you admit I am right and then repeat as much in subsequent posts.

Man, you need to take a break or something. Not only are you advancing context-less, bankrupt positions and mindlessly parsing others' posts to secure (apparently) badly needed self-esteem, you're declaring "victory." Listen friend-o, I'm sure there are better ways to improve your self esteem.