Vaughn Martin

[Beerman]

Shoot, I thought Thomas looked awful on Monday. It seemed like he missed a tackle or play every other snap he was in there.

He didn't finish, but he was getting push and penetration. That is what makes a 4 yard run into a no gain, but it's not a 3 yard loss like the play should have been. He needs to start finishing though.

[sandiego17]

I think you guys misinterpreted or I didn't make clear enough the whole "beat out" discussion. All I meant by the comment was that at the time that I posted the Dolphins had 4 DTs on their roster and that if Martin is going to be waived, it means he couldn't beat out any of the 4. Really, that's all. When Austin was signed is irrelevant. The fact the he has been waived is very relevant if the Dolphins do go ahead and waive Martin and if the Dolphins sign someone else and keep 4 DTs on the roster.

He was on IR before Austin was signed, even if Martin is not waved, he doesn't have the opportunity to beat out or get beaten out by Austin, they never played together and won't. Has very little to do with when you posted and it is relevant in regards to your defense of Martin. Defending Martin is a losing battle, he's a scrub at best and defending him is at least a bit of a credibility hit in regards to anything else which might actually have value.

[sandiego17]

Shoot, I thought Thomas looked awful on Monday. It seemed like he missed a tackle or play every other snap he was in there.

He didn't get pushed around as much. I don't expect him to make a ton of tackles, would be nice if he continues to get that kind of penetration. Doubt it though.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

I didn't even read your posts in this thread until you brought them up in the Allen thread as I was too busy responding in the Allen thread.

Sorry to disillusion you, but your posts meant nothing.

The post from SFW made a good point about Austin not being as good as Reyes and I had already acknowledged that, but even then I thought that the Dolphins would not release Martin if they thought that Austin was nothing more than street fluff.

If Martin gets waived as expected (I still haven't heard that Martin has been medically cleared or waived yet) and the Dolphins keep four DTs, then that is a huge indictment against Martin. It could have made sense for the Dolphins to develop a player deep on their bench that was not as good as Martin if they believed that the player had more long term potential than Martin and that's what I thought was going to happen with Austin, who was a second round pick that had had some injuries that could have been holding him back, and I was clearly wrong about that.

Just admit you were wrong. Way wrong and leave it at that. All the defiant bullshit just makes you look bad.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

When Austin was signed is irrelevant.

I take this to mean that timing has no place in your worldview (when the defense yields it is irrelevant), which is a stinging indictment of your logical powers.

[Yubaking]

He didn't get pushed around as much. I don't expect him to make a ton of tackles, would be nice if he continues to get that kind of penetration. Doubt it though.

It was his missed tackles that bothered me. You are right about an NT not getting too many tackles though.

[Yubaking]

Just admit you were wrong. Way wrong and leave it at that. All the defiant bullshit just makes you look bad.

I admitted that I was wrong as to Martin in several respects in bold in this thread and also in the Allen thread. I am not sure what else I can do about that.

[SFW]

Yes, but at the time of my original post on the Dolphins then current DTs, Martin had to beat out one of Soliai, Starks, Odrick or Austin to keep a roster spot. The fact that Austin was signed after the fact to keep 4 is irrelevant to that point, but it did turn out that Austin was not the player that I thought he was and that IS an indictment against Martin if the Dolphins intend to keep four DTs and does change my view about the meaning of the Dolphins releasing Martin. Please note that is an admission that I was wrong about how the Dolphins value Martin and was wrong about Martin's level of play.

That said, Martin's game (force and no skill) does set up better as a 3-4 DE than as a 4-3 DT. I wouldn't mind seeing us pick him up as a reserve and letting him battle it out with Lissemore.

Much respect to you on this Yuba. I give you a hard time on this board but I do appreciate you admitting your mistake on this thread.

[blahblahblah]

Martin was always entirely replaceable. He is better suited as a carhop.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

I admitted that I was wrong as to Martin in several respects in bold in this thread and also in the Allen thread. I am not sure what else I can do about that.

Your admissions are accompanied by 'mitigating factors,' 'explanations,' and defiance ("When Austin signed was irrelevant"). Don't get me wrong, coming clean is a step in the right direction. But in this case, there's not much else to say. You were flat-out wrong. Just as you were with Allen. Hopefully this encourages you to post with a little less certitude and perhaps quite a bit less condescension.

[Mister Hoarse]

Martin was always entirely replaceable. He is better suited as a carhop.

He doesn't have the bubble butt for carhop. Better suited to cigarette girl.