2024 Chargers News | Acquisitions | Transactions | Injuries

[powderblueboy]

I never said good defenses don't matter. But in today's NFL it's the offense that wins games not the defense. In close games the team with the ball last seems
to win a majority of close games. It happens over and over again. If the D gets a stop the team wins, but they don't and it allows the opposing offense to score
and win. That happened in the AFC title game and the SB. No matter how they got there it was the offense that won the game, not a defensive stop.

I find this type of argument not terribly useful.

In crunch time, you need a defense that stops offenses, and an offense that converts on long drives:
particularly in big games. How you get there, up to that point, is irrelevant.

Your good offense gets the ball last, often, because the defense forces a 3 and out,
or only allows a field goal.

If you have only one, then that puts too much pressure on that side of the ball to constantly be perfect.
Moreover, if its only the offense, and that side of the ball is one dimensional - only moves the ball successfully through the air,
then that puts even more pressure on that aspect of your team in big moments.

K.C. has both a D and an O for those big moments; moreover both sides are balanced.
They can run the ball in big moments, and their D can make big stops on running plays.
Weaker units on the team can fail at one or two points in the 4rth quarter: often, one just needs to succeed one time for the victory.
That is what is meant by alleviating pressure on any one unit.

If Herbert fails, that's it; if the Oline fails in pass pro, that's it; if a receiver fails, that's it.
Certain Charger units have had to be perfect.


Buffalo is in the same boat as the Chargers. They are trying to lean on their running game more, but still came up short against KC in big moments last year. KC's D stopped Buffalo's O at the end, and it was pretty much Allen having to do it all, while Mahome's had nice pockets and open receiver to deal with. On none of those big playoff drives did he have to thread the needle under intense pressure.

Mahome's is great, don't get me wrong; but it was pretty much pitch and catch last year in crunch time in the playoffs.

K.C.'s training camp regimen is perhaps the most strenuous in the league .... they are probably the best conditioned team out there.
That contributes to their 4rth quarter success, and f- them with their health.

Finally, don't discount Mahome's ability to scramble in the 4rth quarter as a huge part of their success.
Throw it, run it or scramble .... 3 things to lean on. Then, there's always a fortuitous officiating call if all else fails.
Fuck the Chiefs!

[charger1_sj]

you literally just said it again lol.

Chiefs scored 23 pts in the AFCCG. Juggernaut, whoa. Fact is the Bengals got the ball for what should have been “last” with 2:30 left - they also have a good offense. By your theory, they should have won. But wait, what happened - KC STOPPED THEM - 3rd and 8, they sacked Burrow. Bengals punted. some folks call that defense. Then what happened - their punt returner gained 29 yards on the return, which was more yards than the KC offense then gained before kicking the FG that was set up by ST.

The team with the ball last doesn’t always win, who taught you that? Oh, i see, if the game is tied at the end then the last team that does score wins - ok, thats evolutionary analysis. I should write this stuff down. You’re good.

Chiefs defense was better than its offense last year, that is empirically true. Watching their games it was apparent to me. You don’t seem to notice defense, is the problem here. KC stopped the Bengals (defense) critical 2min final drive and then they scored a FG (offense, but really more ST) and all you saw was the second half of the sequence. That second half never happens without the first half.

So KC got the ball last and won the game. Thanks for making my point.

You missed my point. I didn't say the team with the ball last wins the game. I said in close games more than not the offense wins the game. In the last big game where the D
won the game was Eagles vs Pats in the SB.

Chiefs D was better than the O statistically. In the games that mattered it was the offense that won the game against Baltimore and SF. Doesn't mean the D didn't do their part
and the Chiefs got in the POs thanks in large part to their D. But when the chips were down the offense won the game. And no the game wasn't tied. The Chiefs needed a TD
against SF and got it. So there you go.

[powderblueboy]

Baltimore hasn't had a top notch edge rusher since Terrell Suggs.
Mathew Judon was good, but not elite in Baltimore.

I've always appreciated the creative way the Raven DTs worked in tandem with edge rushers and inside linebackers to create pressure since 2018, when a good Charger O struggled going up against it. I'm curious how Minter's designs will free up edge rushers, the meat of the defense. If OTs have to worry a split second about their b gap in pass pro, instead of just setting back quickly (& prematurely) to handle edge pressure, that would be very important.

The Chief's OTs are vulnerable - you need to go after them. However, if all they need to do in pass pro is to immediately back pedal to set up and steer edge rushers around the arc, that won't work.

Under the last regime, Mahomes would generally just step up in the pocket to avoid Bosa/Mack, and their OTs would set up quickly to steer them outside. The DTs never would compensate for this, but be trapped inside (completely useless), and Mahomes would just drift left or right, out of the pocket, or scramble for a big gain.

Staley compensated by just having the edge players bull rush more often than you would like. His D broke down so often, in so many ways, that you just have to sit back and admire the chaos.

[charger1_sj]

I find this type of argument not terribly useful.

In crunch time, you need a defense that stops offenses, and an offense that converts on long drives:
particularly in big games. How you get there, up to that point, is irrelevant.

Your good offense gets the ball last often because the defense forces a 3 and out,
or only allows a field goal.

If you have only one, then that puts too much pressure on that side of the ball to constantly be perfect.
Moreover, if its only the offense, and that side of the ball is one dimensional - only moves the ball successfully through the air,
then that puts even more pressure on that aspect of your team in big moments.

K.C. has both a D and an O for those big moments; moreover their offense is balanced.
So is their D for that matter: they can make big stops on running plays when it matters most.
The Chargers haven't had that type of D in ages, and their Offense has to get it done through the air.

Buffalo is in the same boat. They are trying to lean on their running game more, but still came up short to KC in big moments last year. KC's D stopped Buffalo's O at the end.

K.C.'s training camp regimen is perhaps the most strenuous in the league .... they are probably the best conditioned team out there.
That contributes to their 4rth quarter success.

Finally, don't discount Mahome's ability to scramble in the 4rth quarter as a huge part of their success.
Throw it, run it or scramble .... 3 things to lean on. Then, there's always a fortuitous officiating call if all else fails.
Fuck them!

Bolded is not true. We had the ball last with the games on the line and could not score to win the games. How we got there was poor D. How
it finished was poor offense.

Balance on offense and defense does not negate what I said. In todays NFL the offense plays a big role in close games. A good D is essential.
But when the chips are down the team with the clutch offense wins the game. KC has done this with Mahomes for many years now. Close game,
get the ball last and finish the game, whether a FG or TD, they get it done. Happened in the AFCC and SB this year alone.

Buffalo has failed every year. Their O is not clutch. Allen makes stupid throws and their D is not all that. That's a bad example.

I have not discounted Mahomes. He's the biggest part of their offense. Not sure why you are comparing the Chargers to the Chiefs who have
been a top team ever since Reid got there. For starters we haven't had a real HC since the Norv Turner days.

[powderblueboy]

Bolded is not true. We had the ball last with the games on the line and could not score to win the games. How we got there was poor D. How
it finished was poor offense.

Balance on offense and defense does not negate what I said. In todays NFL the offense plays a big role in close games. A good D is essential.
But when the chips are down the team with the clutch offense wins the game. KC has done this with Mahomes for many years now. Close game,
get the ball last and finish the game, whether a FG or TD, they get it done. Happened in the AFCC and SB this year alone.

Buffalo has failed every year. Their O is not clutch. Allen makes stupid throws and their D is not all that. That's a bad example.

I have not discounted Mahomes. He's the biggest part of their offense. Not sure why you are comparing the Chargers to the Chiefs who have
been a top team ever since Reid got there. For starters we haven't had a real HC since the Norv Turner days.

I'm no longer certain what your point is anymore charger1_sj.

Corners and edge players are as expensive as anyone, outside of qbs, because defense matters.

You can win close games by timely drives on O or timely stops on D: the Chargers did neither very often.
They were a bad team last year. Staley and the coaching staff, collectively, were 3rd rate.

You don't win often in the NFL, with such a coaching staff, unless your roster is elite and healthy.

[Fouts2herbert]

I know it's really early but...

Pipkins is getting the 1st team reps at RG from looking at the OTA images, seems like the coaches want a good long look at Trey at RG...so who is going to be our swing tackle? Currently Sarrell is getting 2nd team reps at LT so I'm thinking they like him as the swing? IMO Foster is strictly a RT where he has looked respectable compared to how he has looked at LT...

also strange to see Leatherwood getting 2nd team reps at RT over Salyer who looks to be the 2nd team RG ATM, so as of right now it looks like Salyer might've lost his starting job on the O-line, also surprisingly it seems like this new staff believes in Jaimes...

so current starters look to be Slater, Johnson, Bozeman, Pipkins, and Alt...Then Sarrell as the swing tackle and Mcfadden, Jaimes, and Salyer as the backup interior linemen...

so far Jaimes is getting reps at both Guard and B/U Center despite all the talk about McFadden being seen as a potential center there are no images of him taking snaps at the center position...

[Fouts2herbert]

I'm no longer certain what your point is anymore charger1_sj.

I think everyone is looking forward to seeing this new version of the team on the field, running out of things to talk about, it's the dead of winter for the NFL offseason...

[Formula 21]

I know it's really early but...

Pipkins is getting the 1st team reps at RG from looking at the OTA images, seems like the coaches want a good long look at Trey at RG...so who is going to be our swing tackle? Currently Sarrell is getting 2nd team reps at LT so I'm thinking they like him as the swing? IMO Foster is strictly a RT where he has looked respectable compared to how he has looked at LT...

also strange to see Leatherwood getting 2nd team reps at RT over Salyer who looks to be the 2nd team RG ATM, so as of right now it looks like Salyer might've lost his starting job on the O-line, also surprisingly it seems like this new staff believes in Jaimes...

so current starters look to be Slater, Johnson, Bozeman, Pipkins, and Alt...Then Sarrell as the swing tackle and Mcfadden, Jaimes, and Salyer as the backup interior linemen...

so far Jaimes is getting reps at both Guard and B/U Center despite all the talk about McFadden being seen as a potential center there are no images of him taking snaps at the center position...

I’m hoping to see Salyer as our backup LT. We know he can play the position. Keep Alt on the right side to minimize disruptions, but he could move there too. Sarell or Pipkins, no way.

[powderblueboy]

Some ex football players and coaches down on the Chargers this year.

They don't think the Oline matches Harbaugh's be physical at the point of attack creed.
They don't see who Herbert will go to on 3rd and 8.

[Formula 21]

Some ex football players and coaches down on the Chargers this year.

They don't think the Oline matches Harbaugh's be physical at the point of attack creed.
They don't see who Herbert will go to on 3rd and 8.

Interesting comment, QJ was the most covered receiver in the NFL last year due to lack of separation.

Not good, separation is king in my book.

But it can be practiced and it can be learned.

[dmac_bolt]

^ This...you need balance in ALL phases of the game...you need to be able to ADJUST depending on how the matchups are going, on both O and D...On offense, you need BOTH a solid ground game AND a solid passing attack, so you can ADJUST depending on what the opposing D gives you...if the opposing D stacks the box, PASS PASS PASS...if they don't, run the rock with an occasional pass...when we're on D, adjust as needed also...I think Trader Joe has done a masterful job of putting together as complete an O as I've seen in a long time...on defense, we are STACKED at edge and our LB's don't look too bad either...

My ONLY two concerns on D are at DT and our secondary...but I realize you can't fix everything overnight...so we may be a bit vulnerable to a punishing ground game, but hopefully our LB's and SS's limit the damage...Our edge depth is so good, I think we're going to have a solid pass rush, which should hurry opposing QB's into a lot of incompletes, picks and sacks...this could well disguise our somewhat unproven secondary coverage...next draft, I think we nab an elite FS and run-stuffing DT...but I see us as vastly improved already...yes, balance and the ability to ADJUST is the key!

This guy gets it

[dmac_bolt]

Interesting comment, QJ was the most covered receiver in the NFL last year due to lack of separation.

Not good, separation is king in my book.

But it can be practiced and it can be learned.

75% of the off-season video clips I've seen of him are working on exactly this. The casual armchair bystander, er TPB guru, will not discover anything that this kid and coaches didn't already figure out - we have no special secret to share with him.