2024 Chargers Roster Build Discussion - Transactions | News

[blueman]

Yeah, I doubt they get anything for Pipkins in trade. He's a development guy that didn't develop (certainly not to the level TT envisioned). Why wouldn't a team go look in the 4th or 5th round for that kind of guy? Who would pay for a guy scheduled to make $9m this year and $9m next year?

The fact that Pipkins is making more than Slater doesn't mean that you wouldn't/shouldn't draft an OT. It simply means that you over-paid for a guy that didn't develop. The fact that the Chargers haven't valued the RT (or couldn't draft one properly)... has left us in desperate situations (hence the re-signing of Pipkins... or signing of broken down Baluga... or starting Storm/Tevi over Pip). I think those days are over. Keep Pip as depth for year...? Sure. No problem with me there. Expect that new coaches magically transform him into a physical run blocker or dependable QB protection...? Nah, I'm not going that far. Go fix the problem. Stop accepting mediocrity... the new regime is not like the old regime.

You’ve convinced me! Day three RT to replace Pip, coming right up! With the new coaching/scheme, shouldn’t be a problem at all.

Now, name me a day three WR better than (or minimum the potential to be) better than QJ/Palmer?

[Fouts2herbert]

I read over your initial post (and agree with most of it). But I'll address the "over-spending at the OT position" part of the post...

1) I don't believe that Alt (or any other high calibur college LT) to play RT is that big of a risk. There are numerous high-caliber college LT's that made long-term transitions to RT. Layne Johnson, Orlando Brown Jr., Penei Sewell just to name a few of the many.

2) If you are going to factor Pipkin's $8.9m into Alt's salary in 2024, then it's fair to factor in the contract savings for 2025 if Pipkins gets cut or traded after 2024 ($6.75m). The contract is bad. The contract is done. Create a way to get out from under it in 2025. I'm sure Hortiz can find several low-price/high reward FA's for that money. In the end, I don't think Pipkins can do what Roman wants his RT to do. And that is the real value of Alt @#5 or Fuaga @#11. There is almost no way I see Pipkins being worth $9.25m in 2025 if he can't do what Roman needs. If that is the case, then we're drafting a RT in 2025 anyways. If they're drafting a RT in 2025, it probably won't be @#5... and you're probably getting a RT-only (rather than an OT that could play both sides. That only adds additional value to Joe Alt.

3) The real value of Joe Alt is his ability to play LT also. We have no idea what is on the horizon with Rashawn Slater. And I'm not only talking about a future contract. I'm considering future health or scheme fit, too. I'm pretty sure that scheme fit won't be a problem... but he already sat out most of 2022 with an injury. Injuries happen. And an OL-Centric team better have answers for injuries along the OL. Which is Pipkins only value, IMO. In that scenario, Salyer becomes valuable, too. But like you say... he's penciled in @RG. The real value of Joe Alt is 2 or 3-fold.

4) The #5 pick (or #11 pick) demand the same money regardless of the position. The only consideration should be effect on your overall team. The Chargers decided that EDGE (over WR) had the greater value this off-season. After this off-season's moves... I don't think over-spending (or under-spending) at one particular position is much of a consideration at all for this GM/coaching staff. If there was a position I think THIS staff would "over-spend" on... it would be OT. I think your theory about "Position Value" (with this staff) is but a small consideration for this particular group.

Joe Alt will save us...

[wu-dai clan]

[wu-dai clan]

[dmac_bolt]

Yeah, I doubt they get anything for Pipkins in trade. He's a development guy that didn't develop (certainly not to the level TT envisioned). Why wouldn't a team go look in the 4th or 5th round for that kind of guy? Who would pay for a guy scheduled to make $9m this year and $9m next year?

The fact that Pipkins is making more than Slater doesn't mean that you wouldn't/shouldn't draft an OT. It simply means that you over-paid for a guy that didn't develop. The fact that the Chargers haven't valued the RT (or couldn't draft one properly)... has left us in desperate situations (hence the re-signing of Pipkins... or signing of broken down Baluga... or starting Storm/Tevi over Pip). I think those days are over. Keep Pip as depth for year...? Sure. No problem with me there. Expect that new coaches magically transform him into a physical run blocker or dependable QB protection...? Nah, I'm not going that far. Go fix the problem. Stop accepting mediocrity... the new regime is not like the old regime.

there's my disagreement. Pipkins did develop, he's been the starting RT for 2 years. 2023 wasn't a great year-for him but also not good for ANY Charger OL player. In fact, all three interior linemen played worse. But in 2022 he was solid, he gave up 2 sacks the entire year, that is the definition of dependable QB protection. JH is getting murdered by DL and blitzers up the middle a lot more than either edge.

A trading team wouldn't pay Pip $9M in any year. He's getting $6.25M this year, $6.75M next year. Thats solid mid-tier OT pay though, its not nothing. But the rest of his contract was signing bonus already paid and on the Chargers books. add to that 2025 is not guaranteed so a team has the option to cut him after this year with zero cap impact. They can test-drive him for $6.25M obligation. If you're gonna quote facts, get your facts straight.

I don't believe a 6th round pick is going to replace him. Those are <10% odds, a very bad bet. If the JH2 priority is to replace him with a draft pick for 2024 season, they need to pick an OT by Rd2. if that's their expert analysis/conclusion - ok by me. I won't be surprised, I'm just not certain as there's lots of things to improve on the team. A great OL is great, i'm just not myopic enough to believe its the only thing that matters. I don't know if they think they can coach the linemen up, or switch Salyer to RT and instead draft OG, or ? I trust their vision. We'll see soon enough.

The #1 OT prospect much of TPB clamors for is Alt - he is not a physical run blocker either.

We have mediocre RBs, mediocre CBs, mediocre LBs, VERY MEDIOCRE DTs, mediocre WRs, ... you don't need to scold me about accepting mediocrity, thats not necessary, its not valid, and its besides the point. I think DT is a higher priority for trench upgrade, why don't you stop accepting a mediocre defense that has been bottom 5 in the league for years and the #1 reason we have sucked while our offense has been the better half of the team every year. The Wolverines won the Natty with the BEST DEFENSE in the country - That regime values defense a lot more than TPB does.

[Bolt4Knob]

there's my disagreement. Pipkins did develop, he's been the starting RT for 2 years. 2023 wasn't a great year-for him but also not good for ANY Charger OL player. In fact, all three interior linemen played worse. But in 2022 he was solid, he gave up 2 sacks the entire year, that is the definition of dependable QB protection. JH is getting murdered by DL and blitzers up the middle a lot more than either edge.

A trading team wouldn't pay Pip $9M in any year. He's getting $6.25M this year, $6.75M next year. Thats solid mid-tier OT pay though, its not nothing. But the rest of his contract was signing bonus already paid and on the Chargers books. add to that 2025 is not guaranteed so a team has the option to cut him after this year with zero cap impact. They can test-drive him for $6.25M obligation. If you're gonna quote facts, get your facts straight.

I don't believe a 6th round pick is going to replace him. Those are <10% odds, a very bad bet. If the JH2 priority is to replace him with a draft pick for 2024 season, they need to pick an OT by Rd2. if that's their expert analysis/conclusion - ok by me. I won't be surprised, I'm just not certain as there's lots of things to improve on the team. A great OL is great, i'm just not myopic enough to believe its the only thing that matters. I don't know if they think they can coach the linemen up, or switch Salyer to RT and instead draft OG, or ? I trust their vision. We'll see soon enough.

The #1 OT prospect much of TPB clamors for is Alt - he is not a physical run blocker either.

We have mediocre RBs, mediocre CBs, mediocre LBs, VERY MEDIOCRE DTs, mediocre WRs, ... you don't need to scold me about accepting mediocrity, thats not necessary, its not valid, and its besides the point. I think DT is a higher priority for trench upgrade, why don't you stop accepting a mediocre defense that has been bottom 5 in the league for years and the #1 reason we have sucked while our offense has been the better half of the team every year. The Wolverines won the Natty with the BEST DEFENSE in the country - That regime values defense a lot more than TPB does.

Other than Center, and it seems like with Bozeman at least have an upgrade over last year - IDL and LB are the biggest need on thsi roster

The Defense has been so below average for many years. I know statistically with Bradley it was pretty good but it seemed that was still bend but don't break. I want a defense that gets its backside off the damn field more.
How many times did special teams pin the opposing offense deep and the other teams offense converted on 3rd down and again and are punting from middle field to flip field position

Three and outs!! Need more of them

So that might mean a guy like Newton is the pick in R1. Or not but rest assured - defense will be addressed!

[Fouts2herbert]

there's my disagreement. Pipkins did develop, he's been the starting RT for 2 years. 2023 wasn't a great year-for him but also not good for ANY Charger OL player. In fact, all three interior linemen played worse. But in 2022 he was solid, he gave up 2 sacks the entire year, that is the definition of dependable QB protection. JH is getting murdered by DL and blitzers up the middle a lot more than either edge.

A trading team wouldn't pay Pip $9M in any year. He's getting $6.25M this year, $6.75M next year. Thats solid mid-tier OT pay though, its not nothing. But the rest of his contract was signing bonus already paid and on the Chargers books. add to that 2025 is not guaranteed so a team has the option to cut him after this year with zero cap impact. They can test-drive him for $6.25M obligation. If you're gonna quote facts, get your facts straight.

I don't believe a 6th round pick is going to replace him. Those are <10% odds, a very bad bet. If the JH2 priority is to replace him with a draft pick for 2024 season, they need to pick an OT by Rd2. if that's their expert analysis/conclusion - ok by me. I won't be surprised, I'm just not certain as there's lots of things to improve on the team. A great OL is great, i'm just not myopic enough to believe its the only thing that matters. I don't know if they think they can coach the linemen up, or switch Salyer to RT and instead draft OG, or ? I trust their vision. We'll see soon enough.

The #1 OT prospect much of TPB clamors for is Alt - he is not a physical run blocker either.

We have mediocre RBs, mediocre CBs, mediocre LBs, VERY MEDIOCRE DTs, mediocre WRs, ... you don't need to scold me about accepting mediocrity, thats not necessary, its not valid, and its besides the point. I think DT is a higher priority for trench upgrade, why don't you stop accepting a mediocre defense that has been bottom 5 in the league for years and the #1 reason we have sucked while our offense has been the better half of the team every year. The Wolverines won the Natty with the BEST DEFENSE in the country - That regime values defense a lot more than TPB does.

You tell him Dmac!

Nutty is just pissed ever since Trey got resigned, he and I had a long posting battle over whether that extension should happen and when it happened he just doubled down on the Pip hate, Trey was not even close to being the biggest problem on the O-line last year, but whatever, it's fruitless to discuss it with him because he's dug in like a goddam tick on two things, 1) his overwhelming hatred for pipkins and 2) his unrelenting faith in Joe Alt...

...and I've already told him I got no issue with Trey getting replaced AND I like Alt as a prospect BUT he's not even my favorite OT in this draft, Nutty knows his shit so it surprises the hell outta me that he's so high on Alt, Alt is going to struggle with power at the NFL level, he was getting rag dolled in college already and I think his body is not there yet, he still has to fill out and get stronger, he's going to be a stud eventually but it might take a couple years, I compare him to Miller from the Raiders and some people thought he was a bust initially and now he's probably one of the top 10-15 tackles in the NFL, Alt needs to get stronger and for fuck's sake, Nutty has him replacing Slater in some of his posts! it just makes it hard to take him serious after reading stuff like that...

as for the 5th pick, the value is there at WR, Edge (Turner or Verse), and Brock fucking Bowers, I'm not taking any OTs that high, I think the whole OT class at the top is a bit overrated, it's a deep class for sure but some of these guys they have going in the first right now are 2nd round guys IMO, my favorite OTs in this class are the three Samoan kids, Fautanu, Fuaga, and Suamataia

[Bolt4Knob]

You tell him Dmac!

Nutty is just pissed ever since Trey got resigned, he and I had a long posting battle over whether that extension should happen and when it happened he just doubled down on the Pip hate, Trey was not even close to being the biggest problem on the O-line last year, but whatever, it's fruitless to discuss it with him because he's dug in like a goddam tick on two things, 1) his overwhelming hatred for pipkins and 2) his unrelenting faith in Joe Alt...

...and I've already told him I got no issue with Trey getting replaced AND I like Alt as a prospect BUT he's not even my favorite OT in this draft, Nutty knows his shit so it surprises the hell outta me that he's so high on Alt, Alt is going to struggle with power at the NFL level, he was getting rag dolled in college already and I think his body is not there yet, he still has to fill out and get stronger, he's going to be a stud eventually but it might take a couple years, I compare him to Miller from the Raiders and some people thought he was a bust initially and now he's probably one of the top 10-15 tackles in the NFL, Alt needs to get stronger and for fuck's sake, Nutty has him replacing Slater in some of his posts! it just makes it hard to take him serious after reading stuff like that...

as for the 5th pick, the value is there at WR, Edge (Turner or Verse), and Brock fucking Bowers, I'm not taking any OTs that high, I think the whole OT class at the top is a bit overrated, it's a deep class for sure but some of these guys they have going in the first right now are 2nd round guys IMO, my favorite OTs in this class are the three Samoan kids, Fautanu, Fuaga, and Suamataia

I think Interior OL, starting with Center once Linsley went down was the weakness
Now drafting to replace Pipkins is a long term answer but what if JH2 consider the bigger problem to be IOL and still try to find the long term solution at OC and maybe even add another OG in this draft...
Improving the Oline is more than just making sure RT is solid

[21&500]

I say the starting Oline is fixed with Bozeman
just add depth and competition.
Develop a few Saturday guys to beat out our starters by 2025.
Brock, CB, WR, LB on Thursday and Friday.

[Fouts2herbert]

I think Interior OL, starting with Center once Linsley went down was the weakness
Now drafting to replace Pipkins is a long term answer but what if JH2 consider the bigger problem to be IOL and still try to find the long term solution at OC and maybe even add another OG in this draft...
Improving the Oline is more than just making sure RT is solid

exactly! Center is a much bigger need than RT, IDK about you guys but Bozeman does not make me feel like we are set at center, I'm glad we got him and he's an upgrade over Clapp but yeah, that's not exactly a big endorsement...they need to go IOL early...the 5th pick should be either nabers, bowers, or verse, then the 2nd round pick has to be all about the best remaining IOL

[Chargers8491]

I think Interior OL, starting with Center once Linsley went down was the weakness
Now drafting to replace Pipkins is a long term answer but what if JH2 consider the bigger problem to be IOL and still try to find the long term solution at OC and maybe even add another OG in this draft...
Improving the Oline is more than just making sure RT is solid

I'm not sure what is going on with Linsley. I know we expect him to retire but I've seen him at the voluntary workouts working out with the team so who knows if he is going to retire for sure.

[Riverwalk]

Arizona should draft one of the QB’s.

seriously, what would they get for Kyler Murray in a trade? A 3rd?