Allen signs extension

[Steve]

Using that definition, I think just about every single player in the NFL qualifies. Therefore, you should sign nobody and be bad while other teams sign players who miss time and win games.

I don't know why Butler keeps getting mentioned in this thread. I don't necessarily see anything except superficial parallels. The cases are completely different in their particulars.

[6025]

Using that definition, I think just about every single player in the NFL qualifies. Therefore, you should sign nobody and be bad while other teams sign players who miss time and win games.

I don't know why Butler keeps getting mentioned in this thread. I don't necessarily see anything except superficial parallels. The cases are completely different in their particulars.

Every single player? Like Philip Rivers?

[Steve]

How about the interceptions he threw when he had the cracked ribs in Norv's last season? Those don't count? It seems like every season some reporter likes to think that they have found the reason that Rivers throws more interceptions, or his performance is up or down. The point is, he is hurt, and hurt most of the time, although I don't necessarily think that it has that much to do with his performance. Just saying that as a QB, he is a lot better protected, and other positions are more physically (and less mentally demanding). And as far as players making decisions, I think it is usually the coaches and training staff that makes the decisions, so it is not always the players being tough or not. I think if you left it up to players, most of the time they would try to play with it, no matter what it is.

Face it, it is a contact sport and EVERYBODY is hurt, most of the time. Fans like to cherry pick which injuries they think are serious or not, but how many NFL players have surgery at the end of the season for somehting that was never on the injury report? It happens all the time. Half the guys in the pro bowl do it. But the extension of that is that a lot of players who you think are healthy are really just as injury prone as some of the ones who aren't. At some point, you have to trust that the team and the doctors know a ton more about this then any us do.

Also, guys like JJ Watt are another example. Is he now injury prone, since his production fell off a cliff this season, with 5 surgeries immediately after? He was healthy, but now maybe is or isn't injury prone? And what impact is that going to have on his long term health? But I don't think there are many fans, players, GM or coaches who would pass on JJ Watt no matter what, if he was available. We tend to cherry pick the injury thing based on our own biases.

Again, you can call Allen injury prone based on last year, but a guy fell on him awkwardly and he got an injury that was a fluke. Not many players get lacerated kidney's, so to call it prone is absurd. You think that the same injury is going to pop up again?

[richpjr]

Again, you can call Allen injury prone based on last year, but a guy fell on him awkwardly and he got an injury that was a fluke. Not many players get lacerated kidney's, so to call it prone is absurd. You think that the same injury is going to pop up again?

I am glad we signed Allen to an extension as he has more than earned it. But I don't think the injury argument was based solely on last year. Going back to his last year at Cal, he has missed games in 4 straight seasons for injury (torn PCL, broken collar bone, hip flexor, ankle, and a lacerated kidney).

[6025]

How about the interceptions he threw when he had the cracked ribs in Norv's last season? Those don't count? It seems like every season some reporter likes to think that they have found the reason that Rivers throws more interceptions, or his performance is up or down. The point is, he is hurt, and hurt most of the time, although I don't necessarily think that it has that much to do with his performance. Just saying that as a QB, he is a lot better protected, and other positions are more physically (and less mentally demanding). And as far as players making decisions, I think it is usually the coaches and training staff that makes the decisions, so it is not always the players being tough or not. I think if you left it up to players, most of the time they would try to play with it, no matter what it is.

Face it, it is a contact sport and EVERYBODY is hurt, most of the time. Fans like to cherry pick which injuries they think are serious or not, but how many NFL players have surgery at the end of the season for somehting that was never on the injury report? It happens all the time. Half the guys in the pro bowl do it. But the extension of that is that a lot of players who you think are healthy are really just as injury prone as some of the ones who aren't. At some point, you have to trust that the team and the doctors know a ton more about this then any us do.

Also, guys like JJ Watt are another example. Is he now injury prone, since his production fell off a cliff this season, with 5 surgeries immediately after? He was healthy, but now maybe is or isn't injury prone? And what impact is that going to have on his long term health? But I don't think there are many fans, players, GM or coaches who would pass on JJ Watt no matter what, if he was available. We tend to cherry pick the injury thing based on our own biases.

Again, you can call Allen injury prone based on last year, but a guy fell on him awkwardly and he got an injury that was a fluke. Not many players get lacerated kidney's, so to call it prone is absurd. You think that the same injury is going to pop up again?

The dude has been injured every year and as rich points out, at Cal too.

[maurile]

Keenan Allen is an injury risk because everybody is. Yes, even Philip Rivers.

Only past injury-proneness, not future injury-proneness, can be known with any reliability at all. Past injury-proneness tells us almost nothing about future injury-proneness. The difference between the most injury-prone guys and the least injury-prone guys in the league, prospectively, is about one game per season.

[6025]

Keenan Allen is our best wide receiver and I'm glad he's going to remain a Charger but is it smart to deny he's had injury issues his whole career?

[Steve]

I am glad we signed Allen to an extension as he has more than earned it. But I don't think the injury argument was based solely on last year. Going back to his last year at Cal, he has missed games in 4 straight seasons for injury (torn PCL, broken collar bone, hip flexor, ankle, and a lacerated kidney).

I'm not saying it is based on one year. I am well aware that Allen had issues coming out of college. We could never have drafted him without them. You can't get top 10 talent in the 3rd round without some other issue.

First, I am saying that everyone has their own (completely) arbitrary threshold for what is or isn't injury "prone". There is also the fact that I think it is splitting hairs and making arbitrary labels that you have no medical training to make.

I am saying that all players have injury issues, but only teams and teammates know about many of them. You are excluding some and not excluding others. And you are doing it in a very ramdom way. Look up and down most NFL rosters in the preseason magazines. For the most part, most of the players on an NFL roster don't play an entire season. Most of them, if they play at all, miss a game here or a game there. I think it is somewhat of an unrealistic expectation. Would it be realistic if you we fired at work for calling in sick 1 day per year? That is exactly the same sort of thing.

Also, I still think the injury thing is secondary to skill. I am sure there are plenty of people with the fortitude to be able to stick it out and play through 16 regular season, 4 preseason, scrimedges, practices OTA's and minicamp, and not get hurt. BUt would any of them be any good. We need more good players, not less. I think people are overvaluing health.

And no matter what you say, WR miss games even when they don't miss them. Top WR, even HOF guys have games where they disappear and are not productive. Again, there is no hope of getting a similar player, "injury prone" or not. And at some point, I assume you want to actually win games, because there is no way to do it without guys like Allen.

No one is denying that Allen has an injury history. Without knowing the details of the contract, you don't know if it is a good deal or not. If you look at the deals that Butler and Liuget have gotten, using that as the expectation that Allen is getting something similar, the idea is to pay them for a couple more seasons, and then be forced to make a decision. At that point (2 or 3 years in), there are pre-programmed bonuses that can be awarded or will force us to cut Allen, if his performance falls off, and I would just classify injury as part of that evaluation.

To me the bigger issue is that the Chargers seem to be more effected by injuries than other teams. To me that suggests something in the training routine.

[Lightningwill_420]

I am just as prone to throw for 3,000 yards this coming year as Philip Rivers is. I mean, just because I have yet to throw a spiral farther than 10 yards in the air and have missed work due to allergies and Phish concerts says nothing about how I'd do this coming season with millions of guaranteed dollars against the cap.

Again I'll ask - if past injuries don't matter, why didn't we keep Ryan Mathews?

[Bolt-O]

If I recall, I think there was a token offer to Mathews, but he took the best offer available to him... and even then Philly signed Murray. I don't like drafting RBs high, but as they did, Gordon is cheaper on his contract than Mathews would have been on his second contract with the Chargers. If Allen didn't have injury concerns, he might have gotten a better contract, or like Steve posted... may have never been drafted by the Chargers in the first place.

[Lightningwill_420]

If I recall, I think there was a token offer to Mathews, but he took the best offer available to him... and even then Philly signed Murray. I don't like drafting RBs high, but as they did, Gordon is cheaper on his contract than Mathews would have been on his second contract with the Chargers. If Allen didn't have injury concerns, he might have gotten a better contract, or like Steve posted... may have never been drafted by the Chargers in the first place.

That makes sense then.

[Formula 21]

How about the interceptions he threw when he had the cracked ribs in Norv's last season? Those don't count? It seems like every season some reporter likes to think that they have found the reason that Rivers throws more interceptions, or his performance is up or down. The point is, he is hurt, and hurt most of the time, although I don't necessarily think that it has that much to do with his performance. Just saying that as a QB, he is a lot better protected, and other positions are more physically (and less mentally demanding). And as far as players making decisions, I think it is usually the coaches and training staff that makes the decisions, so it is not always the players being tough or not. I think if you left it up to players, most of the time they would try to play with it, no matter what it is.

Face it, it is a contact sport and EVERYBODY is hurt, most of the time. Fans like to cherry pick which injuries they think are serious or not, but how many NFL players have surgery at the end of the season for somehting that was never on the injury report? It happens all the time. Half the guys in the pro bowl do it. But the extension of that is that a lot of players who you think are healthy are really just as injury prone as some of the ones who aren't. At some point, you have to trust that the team and the doctors know a ton more about this then any us do.

Also, guys like JJ Watt are another example. Is he now injury prone, since his production fell off a cliff this season, with 5 surgeries immediately after? He was healthy, but now maybe is or isn't injury prone? And what impact is that going to have on his long term health? But I don't think there are many fans, players, GM or coaches who would pass on JJ Watt no matter what, if he was available. We tend to cherry pick the injury thing based on our own biases.

Again, you can call Allen injury prone based on last year, but a guy fell on him awkwardly and he got an injury that was a fluke. Not many players get lacerated kidney's, so to call it prone is absurd. You think that the same injury is going to pop up again?

What? JJ Watt's production fell off the cliff the year they put in better PED testing?