See ya Ladarius

[oneinchpunch]

Off to the Steelers.

So much potential. So little production.

[Steve]

His production wasn't bad for a 2nd string TE who played mostly on run downs. He was never going to develop with us, because he was never getting enough downs in passing situations. We wouldn't pull Gates on those downs, but that is when Green needed to be playing. He is still the fastest TE in football, so it was pretty unlikely that he was going to be willing to come back and play behind Gates.

[Heatmiser]

Green is being hailed as the replacement for Heath Miller. I like Green, but I don't see it. Miller was an outstanding blocking tight end who could execute the short-intermediate TE route tree perfectly. Green is a disaster as a blocker -- watch how many times our RBs got stuffed in the backfield last two seasons because he either missed his assignment totally or just got blown back -- and his route running, other than some crossing routes once things have been cleared out or some deeper, simple routes, never seemed to improve. He has great speed, jumping ability, pretty good hands, but a replacement for Miller? He is just not that kind of player. And he seemed to be accumulating a lot of injuries the more he played. I can see why the Chargers didn't throw a lot of money at him.

TG

[Steve]

I don't think he is a disaster. He is OK for a pass catching TE. Now, I keep hearing Steelers fans talk about them wanting to get back to power football, and we know that Green is not going to be much help there.

OC's in the NFL dream of a TE who can split the S in cover 2 with a TE with the speed to get behind the middle LB, and Green can do that. He also does his best work off of play action, which should help as a TE in the Steelers system. But the Steelers are not going to run the ball that well unless their OL improve and their TE blocking isn't going to add anything to that. At least Green won't.

Today's generation of new age TE (think big WR who can't block) make Green look good by comparison. But he is never going to make anyone forget Miller.

[blueman]

Not buying he didn't get enough playing time. Other players do more with less, he just did less.

[Steve]

AS far as the playing time thing goes, it is kinda common sense. Sure, other players may do more with less, but anything in life, if you do something more you get better. We didn't include Green in our passing game to any real extent and he never developed that part of his game. All of his production came from the running game side, and once he got reps in that area, he developed. Coaches learned a long time ago player development is related to reps in practice and games. Guys like JJ Watt get a 1000 plays their rookie season, thousands of reps in practice and minicamps, OTA's, they develop at a much faster rate, not to mention they have thousands of more reps from college. But most NFL young NFL players come in and have to fight to get any practice time at all, and get reps in practice with an eye dropper, so develop at a much slower rate.

Like anything with people involved, how much experience and their own skills and gifts mix in so some players develop faster then others in time, but normally the number of reps a player has is a pretty good indicator. The NFL is horrible about not giving all players, particularly young players a chance to get practice and playing time. Plus, we don't get to see how much practice time players get. The latest CBA limiting practice and off field time with coaches is particularly bad about that.

If he comes on in the middle or end of the season, and Green suddenly explodes in their passing offense (as opposed to their play action package) then we have a pretty good guess.

[MakoShark]

Not buying he didn't get enough playing time. Other players do more with less, he just did less.

I would add that he blew a lot of his playing time by getting injured. He had his opportunities.

[Lightningwill_420]

My guess is Green does well with the Steelers. He was a better player for us than y'all are giving him credit for. He played for a team in which the quarterback generally had less than 3 seconds to make a decent pass, and Green still got 400 yards receiving as a little-used tight end.
I think we did right not signing him - we got more important positions to address than pass-catching tight end. I'd rather the team spend less on the position and get somebody who can help our O'line block. Put the rest of the money in the pot to help us sign good O'linemen and pass rushers.

[richpjr]

My guess is Green does well with the Steelers. He was a better player for us than y'all are giving him credit for. He played for a team in which the quarterback generally had less than 3 seconds to make a decent pass, and Green still got 400 yards receiving as a little-used tight end.
I think we did right not signing him - we got more important positions to address than pass-catching tight end. I'd rather the team spend less on the position and get somebody who can help our O'line block. Put the rest of the money in the pot to help us sign good O'linemen and pass rushers.

I also worry that he had so many concussions in a short amount of time.

[Wheels]

Green is being hailed as the replacement for Heath Miller. I like Green, but I don't see it. Miller was an outstanding blocking tight end who could execute the short-intermediate TE route tree perfectly. Green is a disaster as a blocker -- watch how many times our RBs got stuffed in the backfield last two seasons because he either missed his assignment totally or just got blown back -- and his route running, other than some crossing routes once things have been cleared out or some deeper, simple routes, never seemed to improve. He has great speed, jumping ability, pretty good hands, but a replacement for Miller? He is just not that kind of player. And he seemed to be accumulating a lot of injuries the more he played. I can see why the Chargers didn't throw a lot of money at him.

TG

I feel like Green's biggest problem was utilization. Agree he wasn't a good run blocker, but neither is Gates. We shall see if he was just being held back here in the next few seasons. One thing I think is the way Rothlisburger creates those second effort passes, where coverage has completely broken down, it should create a lot of opportunities to get him some big chunk plays.

I should add, if the choice was Gates or Green I would have still gone with Gates. One of my favorite players but he's productive, and I consider loyalty important.

[blueman]

So I guess I'm to believe in all the games Gates was injured and Green started, we never called any TE plays, he never was the first read, etc etc. Or, he doesn't run good routes and has problems creating separation. Even in Pittsburgh, I think he'll play like the perennial backup he is.

[Steve]

They didn't sign him to be a backup. They are paying him too much money to sit him.

When Gates was out, we still favored a lot more 2 TE and play action style passing, even when Green was the only TE. If you think that we just plugged Green into Gates plays, you should go back and look again, because the play calling was a lot different, although not many people on this board can recognize even simple plays.

Green wasn't being asked to run route combinations or run timing patterns in play action. Look it up. So, even when he took Gates spot, Green was still being asked to do what he already did well. That got Green some production, but it doesn't help him develop as a player. He just needs to play through that. There is a point where all the practice in the world is not going to make you that much better. Green is at that point. He needs to play against NFL caliber DB and LB and learn to run himself open on routes. He is the fastest TE in all of football, but that is irrelevant if you don't learn to run routes. Ask the Raiders about having an Olympic class 4x100 m team as WR and they will remind you that group was the worst WR class in the NFL at that time. Speed means nothing without skill (route running).

I think if he gets the reps Green will get better. NFL teams give most of their reps in practice and games to established players and a lot of players don't develop because they don't get to play much.

AS bad as people like to point to his blocking, watch the younger TE in college. Most of them can't block at all. They aren't asked to, and in spread offenses they don't get the chance. By comparison, Green is an OK run blocker. He may only be OK, but most TE are a lot worse than that. Gates is not a good inline blocker either, although he blocks well downfield. But with such a limited supply, we need to find a real inline TE to go along with Gates.

That being said, while I am sad to see him go, there is no way we could or should have given him the kind of money pitt did. We signed the right guy. I would have liked Green back at the right price, but Pitt's offer is way north of that.