AFC West Roster Positional Rankings

[Maniaque 6]

According to Athlon, Herbie is #6 QB in the league.
Brady and Burrow should be behind him.
A. Ekeler is #4 RB !
K. Allen and M. Williams at 17 and 20 is debatable.
R. Slater #4 at OT
C. Linsley #2 at C
J.C Jackson #4 at CB
D. James #1 at S
I think we have someting there.

[dmac_bolt]

I'm not bothering with this. In your eyes it's an insult if anyone says any quarterback in the NFL you don't like is better than Justin Herbert right now, when he's been in the NFL only two years. If Joe Montana, Peyton Manning, and Johnny Unitas were in their primes right now, you'd probably be saying they're overrated and not nearly as good as Justin Herbert because they can't throw the ball as hard and aren't as gifted physically or athletically. And you value Rex Ryan's opinions simply because he says what you like. That is pure homerism and absolutely ridiculous at this point.

As of right now I think Patrick Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers are better than Herbert. There are other quarterbacks who are around the same level as Herbert--Josh Allen, Deshaun Watson (if he actually plays), and your boy Joe Burrow. I don't include Brady in that group because I think Herbert is clearly better than him now. If you don't like my opinion, I don't care. I'm looking forward to watching my team this season.

At the risk of BFF’ing crusher, i think Herbert is better too. Its an I think you think unprovable thing, they are both very good so the statistical noise (variation) of 21 other players on the field the same time either of them are on the field is greater than the difference between the two. So a slight edge in Herbie’s stats can’t be dispositive, and a homey SB trophy cannot be deciding either. Its faith.

I believe in Justin because I know he is The Golden God. I always knew. I would without blinking take him over Mahomes in a hypothetical draft.

Watson does not impress me, and i never care if others like my opinion.

[powderblueboy]

Yes thats true, and i only see them when he is quoted so post #42 here is actually my post replying to beach that i see...... but im willing to take my chances with the good to bad ratio lol. I dont think everything he says is bad. But his contention for being right isnt always right and he is unflexable in learning is why it isnt worth it combined with the attitude.
Hec over the many years of posting about football and even the years playing the game, ive learned a lot of things about the game in forums and articles, etc... i wasnt aware of before because looking back, i didnt have great coaching and teachers.

Stats do not teach you those things.

Look at his rant about Herbert being better than Mahomes (is that his very good post, IDK). He insists with certainty that Herbert was better last year based on stats, which is fine.
But he said Herbert had a better rating....well he didnt. Mahomes was 98.4 to Herberts 97.7, which is miniscule and dont matter anyways. That could be a matter of a dropped pass. Mahomes had a better completion % by .4% which is a matter of Cook looking the wrong way or running the wrong route. Their YPA was about the same 7.5 to 7.4 so its a matter of Herbert throwing more passes for yards total.

Mahomes had 2 less INTs and only 1 less TD pass. Are we scraping the barrel to say one guy is absolutely better than the other? Id call that pretty even. My contention is Herbert completed year 2, Mahomes year 5.

I wont say Herbert is better than Mahomes right now but could be well ahead by year 3 and certainly by year 4 and i think he certainly will surpass him. But not going to say that today, and it isnt important today. Still going to use the 3 year window.

In your estimation, has Mahomes made himself into a better quarterback since his first few games starting with the Chiefs?

I think he's still basically the same guy; and now he has a lot less around him.

[wu-dai clan]

Well, the Chiefs have football's best offensive line, interesting RBs, new blood at WR, and Kelce.
Reid will Xs and Os you to death.
Mahomes is a punk, but it won't matter.

[DerwinBosa]

At the risk of BFF’ing crusher, i think Herbert is better too. Its an I think you think unprovable thing, they are both very good so the statistical noise (variation) of 21 other players on the field the same time either of them are on the field is greater than the difference between the two. So a slight edge in Herbie’s stats can’t be dispositive, and a homey SB trophy cannot be deciding either. Its faith.

I believe in Justin because I know he is The Golden God. I always knew. I would without blinking take him over Mahomes in a hypothetical draft.

Watson does not impress me, and i never care if others like my opinion.

I have no problem with that. My issue is when someone says, "There's no way Patrick Mahomes is better than Justin Herbert right now," and then somehow brings Eli Manning and Jim Plunkett into the discussion.

[Guest]

I have no problem with that. My issue is when someone says, "There's no way Patrick Mahomes is better than Justin Herbert right now," and then somehow brings Eli Manning and Jim Plunkett into the discussion.

FFS, this is the 4th time I will be explaining this concept. I responded to a poster who cited the fact that Mahomes was on a Super Bowl winning team in support of his conclusion that Mahomes is better than Herbert. Being on a Super Bowl winning team by itself has nothing to do with whether Player A is better than Player B. I cited Plunkett versus Fouts and Eli Manning versus Rivers as clear examples of that point. As I have previously stated, many things may properly be argued when discussing whether one player is better than another. Being on a Super Bowl winning team by itself is not one of those things.

My position, which you either do not understand or have deliberately butchered multiple times, is not some sort of wild position that I am "somehow" bringing up. Rather, it is incredibly simple. Being on a Super Bowl winning team does not tell us if a particular player is good or bad, which is why it is not probative on the issue of which QB is better between Mahomes and Herbert. Plunkett versus Fouts and Eli Manning versus Rivers illustrate the concept much more clearly which is why they were mentioned.

I stand by my conclusion that Herbert is better than Mahomes. I have Herbert ranked #1 overall among QBs and Mahomes ranked 4th overall, so I actually have two QBs between Herbert and Mahomes (Allen and Rodgers). While I would include Mahomes in the group of seven elite QBs, I see Herbert as having a clear edge over Mahomes now and going forward. One QB is ascending and the other QB is not and lost his most dangerous weapon.

Regarding the latter point, the Chiefs no longer have the throw it to green grass with no defenders and let Hill run to it third down drive saving play that they have used over and over again with Mahomes at QB. They no longer have the most disruptive non-QB offensive player in the NFL. In that respect, Hill is totally irreplaceable and KC's offense should suffer at least to some degree.

[dmac_bolt]

I have no problem with that. My issue is when someone says, "There's no way Patrick Mahomes is better than Justin Herbert right now," and then somehow brings Eli Manning and Jim Plunkett into the discussion.

Yeah, right? Then again, is there any conceivable way that Mahomes is better than Herbert? I think not .

Chains point about Eli and Plunkett was they are examples that winning a SB does not prove the QB is great. He states it because people have said Mahomes is better because he has won a SB. its not a hard concept to understand, give it time - it will come to you.

I expect someone to say winning his division title every year he has played is more relevant evidence he is best, That at least shows repeated success. But even there, the Chiefs won the division the two years before he was their starter too, so was it really him? Hmmm … so many variables, so hard to say … the argument can only end in negotiation …

[Boltjolt]

Yeah, right? Then again, is there any conceivable way that Mahomes is better than Herbert? I think not .

Chains point about Eli and Plunkett was they are examples that winning a SB does not prove the QB is great. He states it because people have said Mahomes is better because he has won a SB. its not a hard concept to understand, give it time - it will come to you.

I expect someone to say winning his division title every year he has played is more relevant evidence he is best, That at least shows repeated success. But even there, the Chiefs won the division the two years before he was their starter too, so was it really him? Hmmm … so many variables, so hard to say … the argument can only end in negotiation …

And I'd agree with that. There are other QBs that aren't that great that have won SBs as we know. Dilfer, Hostetler, B.Johnson, Doug Williams. Those are the all defense teams.

[sonorajim]

Well, the Chiefs have football's best offensive line, interesting RBs, new blood at WR, and Kelce.
Reid will Xs and Os you to death.
Mahomes is a punk, but it won't matter.

PFF has KC OL rated #9, LAC #12. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensi...ngs-tiers-2022

I agree about Reid and Kelce. Still AFCW #1 until proven otherwise.

[DerwinBosa]

Yeah, right? Then again, is there any conceivable way that Mahomes is better than Herbert? I think not .

Chains point about Eli and Plunkett was they are examples that winning a SB does not prove the QB is great. He states it because people have said Mahomes is better because he has won a SB. its not a hard concept to understand, give it time - it will come to you.

I expect someone to say winning his division title every year he has played is more relevant evidence he is best, That at least shows repeated success. But even there, the Chiefs won the division the two years before he was their starter too, so was it really him? Hmmm … so many variables, so hard to say … the argument can only end in negotiation …

Name one person who has said Patrick Mahomes is better than Justin Herbert simply because he's won a Super Bowl or has led the Chiefs to the division title every season since taking over as the starter. I won't bother waiting, because it hasn't happened. Therefore Chain's "point" about Eli Manning and Jim Plunkett has no relevance while comparing Mahomes and Herbert.

Most of those who say Mahomes is better do so because he's played at an elite level twice as long as Herbert has, and his highs so far (and I mean this on an individual level) have been more impressive than Herbert's. That's not debatable, since Mahomes has an MVP, a 50-touchdown pass season, two All-Pro years, and has thrown 37 interceptions in 63 starts to Herbert's 25 picks in 32 starts. That's not a knock on Herbert. He just got started, and it's not out of the question at all that he will become better than Mahomes. He just has to prove it.

As far as the Chiefs winning the division before he got there, that's really not a good argument against Mahomes, who threw 50 touchdown passes the year after Alex Smith threw 26 during his final season with Kansas City. In fact, Smith threw 41 touchdown passes COMBINED in 2016 and 2017. The Chiefs did all they could with Alex Smith at quarterback. They needed Mahomes to take them to to the next level. Putting the fact that the Chiefs won division titles in 2016 and 2017 against Mahomes is comparable to saying the Chargers won only one more game with Justin Herbert at quarterback in 2020 than they did with Philip Rivers in 2019.

[Maniaque 6]

Name one person who has said Patrick Mahomes is better than Justin Herbert simply because he's won a Super Bowl or has led the Chiefs to the division title every season since taking over as the starter. I won't bother waiting, because it hasn't happened. Therefore Chain's "point" about Eli Manning and Jim Plunkett has no relevance while comparing Mahomes and Herbert.

Most of those who say Mahomes is better do so because he's played at an elite level twice as long as Herbert has, and his highs so far (and I mean this on an individual level) have been more impressive than Herbert's. That's not debatable, since Mahomes has an MVP, a 50-touchdown pass season, two All-Pro years, and has thrown 37 interceptions in 63 starts to Herbert's 25 picks in 32 starts. That's not a knock on Herbert. He just got started, and it's not out of the question at all that he will become better than Mahomes. He just has to prove it.

As far as the Chiefs winning the division before he got there, that's really not a good argument against Mahomes, who threw 50 touchdown passes the year after Alex Smith threw 26 during his final season with Kansas City. In fact, Smith threw 41 touchdown passes COMBINED in 2016 and 2017. The Chiefs did all they could with Alex Smith at quarterback. They needed Mahomes to take them to to the next level. Putting the fact that the Chiefs won division titles in 2016 and 2017 against Mahomes is comparable to saying the Chargers won only one more game with Justin Herbert at quarterback in 2020 than they did with Philip Rivers in 2019.

Well said !

[equivocation]

Mahomes second season (first playing) is one of the most impressive QB seasons ever.

I do think a lot of luck was involved in that, and the last couple seasons he has regressed to the mean somewhat.

But he and Herbert are the 2 QBs in the league that actually get better when the defense loads against them in passing situations. Good QBs can take what the defense gives. Great QBs can beat a prepared defense.