Welcome Kyle Emanuel, OLB, NDSU

[Lightningwill_420]

I'd be curious for someone not named "QSmokey" to do some research and determine how accurate (or inaccurate) your prediction - that we've won every game in which BOTH Ryan Mathews and Melvin have played - turns out to be.

Okay. I was wrong. I'm going with these as the criteria: games in which Ryan Mathews carried the ball at least 10 times and Melvin Ingram was recognized by NFL.com as the starter. Sorry; that's not perfect, but it's the best I can do.

Game 1 - Chargers lose to Denver 30-23 in 2012.
Game 2 - Chargers beat the Giants 37-14 in 2013.
Game 3 - Chargers beat the Broncos 27-20 in 2013.
Game 4 - Chargers beat the Raiders 26-13 in 2013.
Game 5 - Chargers beat the Chiefs 27-24 in 2013.
Game 6 - Chargers beat the Bengals 27-10 in post season 2013.
Game 7 - Chargers lose to the Cardinals 18-17 in 2014.
Game 8 - Chargers beat the Seahawks 30-21 in 2014. (I know Mathews didn't finish this game, so I won't count it.)
Game 9 - Chargers beat the Raiders 13-6 in 2014.
Game 10 - Chargers beat the Rams 27-24 in 2014.
Game 11 - Chargers beat the Ravens 34-33 in 2014.
Game 12 - Chargers lose to the Cheaters 23-14 in 2014. (I know the Cheaters busted Mathews with a trip in this game so I won't count it.)

Final record: 8-2 ... without Norv 8-1

I was wrong, but, still, 8-1 is a lot better than 11-14 - the record we had post Norv when they didn't play together. With them, we were nearly unbeatable. Without them, we might as well have been Norv.

With Melvin Ingram, we're 10-5 post Norv. Without him, we're 9-10. So, with Melvin, we're a playoff team. Without him, we're the Browns.
-

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

Super Melvin, we need you!!!!

[RTPbolt]

The other consideration is playing time....how many rookies start or get enough minutes to truly get a chance to rush the passer? I think year 2 and 3 might be more relevant to compare. Interesting figures though.

I can only make real comments on San Diego Chargers. I really don't know many post Billy Ray "great" pass rushers from the teams I don't care about, and I certainly never followed their careers.

The following is purely statistics - not actual knowledge of the players. I am using players who have led the league in sacks in recent years and who started at least 8 games their rookie years. Here is the sack totals their rookie years.

Justin Houston - 5.5 sacks
JJ Watt - 5.5 sacks
Jared Allen - 9 sacks
DeMarcus Ware - 8 sacks
Shawne Merriman - 10 sacks
Dwight Freeney - 13 sacks
Kevin Carter - 6 sacks

Only two made your threshold of 10 sacks, but I don't think I ever argued that most great rookie pass rushers make 10 sacks their rookie seasons. I was only, originally, arguing against your point that there only a minimal number of players who are productive pass rushers their rookie years. I mean - I guess you're literally correct, but I'm just thinking your implication was that pass rushers make great improvements as time goes on. My belief is, as long as a rookie pass rusher is given the opportunity to start more than half a season, one can usually tell if said pass rusher is going to be a productive player.

I can't think of a single Charger pass rusher post Billy Ray who wasn't productive his first year as a starter and then became a productive pass rusher in later years.

And, by the way, my man, Leslie O'Neal got that record before missing the final 3 games of the season.

[Lightningwill_420]

The other consideration is playing time....how many rookies start or get enough minutes to truly get a chance to rush the passer? I think year 2 and 3 might be more relevant to compare. Interesting figures though.

Yea, my original message on the topic mentioned that every "productive" pass rusher we drafted since Billy Ray Smith was productive the first year opportunity was given. Some were given a chance as rookies; others had to wait.

Since Billy Ray, we've never had some crappy pass rusher who later turned out to be a good pass rusher.

[Steve]

But then there are guys like Cliff Avril, Bryce Paup, Kyle Williams .... who become productive pass rushers later on. I had a longer list a few days ago, but can't find it now.

With the exception of Jared Allen, and Justin Houston, the rest of them were all drafted in the top half of the 1st round, most of the in the top 10. Again Telesco has said several times, it takes reps to develop as a pass rusher.

[Lightningwill_420]

But then there are guys like Cliff Avril, Bryce Paup, Kyle Williams .... who become productive pass rushers later on. I had a longer list a few days ago, but can't find it now.

With the exception of Jared Allen, and Justin Houston, the rest of them were all drafted in the top half of the 1st round, most of the in the top 10. Again Telesco has said several times, it takes reps to develop as a pass rusher.

I don't deny that players can get better as time goes on, but pass rushers don't usually rise up from nothing. The good ones are generally productive right off the bat.

I never followed the guys you mentioned like you have.

So, just looking at stats, here are the rookie year numbers:

Cliff Avril: 15 games, 4 starts, 5 sacks
Bryce Paup: 5 games, 0 starts, 0 sacks (1 tackle, so I'm assuming he didn't get an opportunity to play much. The next year, he had 1 start and 7.5 sacks.)

Who is Kyle Williams?
I Googled him and got a few Kyle Williamses. I'm assuming he's a defensive tackle for the Bills.

11 starts, 0 sacks. He certainly is a good example for your argument if your argument is we should wait five years to get somebody as good at sacking QBs as Kendall Reyes is. It took Williams 5 years to have a season with 5 sacks. It took him eight years to get on the sack leader board with 10.5. The next year, he went back to 5.5. He's averaging 3.8 sacks per season - the same number as Reyes is averaging.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

They don't grow like Daisey's to be pick on the side of the road?

And good is good, many on that list are special.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

SPORTSCHARGERS / NFL
Chargers notes: Kyle Emanuel no ordinary rookie
By Michael Gehlken | 9:24 p.m. Sept. 13, 2015

San Diego Chargers vs Detroit Lions at Qualcomm Stadium. Linebacker Kyle Emanuel (51) of the San Diego Chargers intercepts this pass in the second half. — Sean M. Haffey
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✉⎙
Kyle Emanuel played his first NFL game Sunday.

That, for most rookies, would’ve been enough.

But there's one thing about Emanuel that has been clear since the Chargers drafted the outside linebacker in the fifth round this May: He is unlike most rookies.

Emanuel had himself a day in a 33-28 win over the Lions. Not only did he make his regular-season professional debut but he received his first career start, notched his first career sack and — why not? — caught his first career interception.

Imagine if he played his first full game, too.


The 24-year-old from North Dakota State was in and out of the action. Slow to get up after a first-quarter punt, he was evaluated for minutes on the sideline for a possible concussion. Ultimately, he passed the test and re-entered the game. In the third quarter, he injured his shoulder. He jogged off the sideline and into the stadium tunnel while showing minimal movement in his left arm.

Emanuel later returned to the sideline.

He did not re-enter the game.

Chargers over Lions: Complete coverage

Report card: Chargers surge past Lions
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Keenan Allen is Keenan Allen again
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Acee: Chargers offense too good to not be good
Canepa: Chargers get ship turned around
Fans have mixed emotions at the "Q"
Chargers, Rivers wore out Lions
Chargers took away Lions star "Megatron"
Chargers-Lions, quarter by quarter
The absence was particularly noticeable with only three outside linebackers dressed for the game. Jerry Attaochu (hamstring) and Tourek Williams (foot) were inactive, so Melvin Ingram played every defensive snap. His third-quarter hit of quarterback Matthew Stafford forced a lame-duck ball that Emanuel intercepted at the line of scrimmage. Cordarro Law received ample work as the other available outside linebacker.

Emanuel has shown the consistency of a veteran in recent months, not getting too low or too high. He did allow some nostalgia Sunday.

Running out of the tunnel pre-game and being announced with the starters was “something I won’t forget, definitely,” he said.

“But at the same time,” Emanuel added, “you kind of have to push that aside and say, ‘Hey, I’ve got to play a game.’ "

He spoke with his shoulders iced.

“I should be good to go,” Emanuel said. “I’m just icing them down."


Detroit Lions vs San Diego Chargers 2015
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Nuts 'n' Bolts

• A 13-yard Philip Rivers touchdown pass in the fourth quarter to tight end Ladarius Green made history. With that, Rivers tied Dan Fouts for the most career touchdown passes in franchise history. Both sit at 254. Fouts reached the mark over 171 career starts. Sunday was the 145th for Rivers. "We all know how much respect I have for Dan Fouts, and everybody does," Rivers said. "He's a Hall of Famer and a legend here. I think it's something you look back on later and really, really appreciate. But I certainly appreciate it now. ... There are a lot of guys that had a hand in those 254. Hopefully, there are a lot more coming."

• Green, diagnosed with a concussion after Wednesday's practice, was cleared for contact Saturday. On Sunday, he started for suspended Antonio Gates and caught a career-high five passes. His 74 yards were seven short of his previous best set against the Dolphins in 2013.

• Chargers kept kicker Josh Lambo on the 53-man roster in part because of his strong leg. He showed why. Four of his seven kickoffs went for a touchback That is the second-most in franchise history in a game played away from Denver's thin air. Lambo did miss a 38-yard extra point following a delay of game penalty on the offense.

• Wide receiver Malcom Floyd surpassed 5,000 career yards on a quintessential Floyd deep ball, gaining 29 yards.

• Kellen Winslow Sr. was present at the game, watching in a box with family members, when wide receiver Keenan Allen tied his single-game franchise record of 15 catches. Allen totaled 166 yards.

• Wide receiver Jacoby Jones exited the game with an ankle injury and did not return. He stood on the sideline for the second half. Allen handled punts during his absence with running back Branden Oliver at kick returner.

[Coachmarkos]

I told you guys when he was drafted... he'll contribute. Don't buy into that small school crap. Guy can play.

[QSmokey]

I told you guys when he was drafted... he'll contribute. Don't buy into that small school crap. Guy can play.

And the Lions has another NDSU alum, who the announcers briefly gushed about after his one carry (Zach Z-something), so this had to be the BEST day in your NDSU life, I gotta think.

[Coachmarkos]

And the Lions has another NDSU alum, who the announcers briefly gushed about after his one carry (Zach Z-something), so this had to be the BEST day in your NDSU life, I gotta think.

ahem... that's S-DSU. Zach Zenner from SDSU...Kyle Emanuel from NDSU. They played against each other many times. (twice last year and 2 years ago...as playoffs both times).

NDSU is our neighborly rival, who has kicked our tail (and pretty much everyone else's) for the last 4-5 years. Emanuel was the best defensive lineman on the best defense I've watched in person. (Yes, FCS, and yes, College, but Man... they could Defend)

[Bolt-O]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2564234-kyle-emanuel-how-my-rookie-preseason-got-me-ready-for-the-nfl

Pretty good article. Click the link.