Coach Staley Discussion - Fired

[Boltjolt]

Why didnt Staley put in Derwin James as a CB when Vato went down?
Why not play the same scheme w/ Jah Taylor #36?

Our defense didnt change, it was Jax using different formations which made a difference for them. They also went hurry up at times as well which we havent adapted well too all year.

There is a video posted of this in here somewhere.

Staley needs to be able to adapt on the fly better.

[rensoul]

seems forgotten Staley was winning games with Bandy/Carter/Sarell/Clapp starting

are they good players or well coached or both?

Easy explanation is Herbert is really that good. He's an elite talent at QB. The one position that can help make a team and coaching look better than it is. For this past season just have to take a look at how good his pocket presence was and how often he was throwing into tight windows with the playcalling/scheme not doing any favors, the guy threw almost 700 passes with a team that could hardly run the ball and didn't have his top WR's for significant stretches during the season.

In 2 seasons the defense hasn't ranked higher than 20th I believe, that along with some of the most awful run defense I've ever seen the past 2 seasons. The talent on the defensive side of the ball hasn't been bad enough to justify that poor of a performance or is indicative of superior coaching.
Having that as a HC and then having an OC that has a track record of trying to neuter Matt Stafford and Herbert into dink and dunk players then I come to the conclusion that Herbert is an elite talent carrying more than his share of the load before complimenting the coaching.

[Lefty2SLO]

Easy explanation is Herbert is really that good. He's an elite talent at QB. The one position that can help make a team and coaching look better than it is. For this past season just have to take a look at how good his pocket presence was and how often he was throwing into tight windows with the playcalling/scheme not doing any favors, the guy threw almost 700 passes with a team that could hardly run the ball and didn't have his top WR's for significant stretches during the season.

In 2 seasons the defense hasn't ranked higher than 20th I believe, that along with some of the most awful run defense I've ever seen the past 2 seasons. The talent on the defensive side of the ball hasn't been bad enough to justify that poor of a performance or is indicative of superior coaching.
Having that as a HC and then having an OC that has a track record of trying to neuter Matt Stafford and Herbert into dink and dunk players then I come to the conclusion that Herbert is an elite talent carrying more than his share of the load before complimenting the coaching.

21 and 22 versions of the Chargers would not have won more than 4 games per season without Herbert (at best). He's the only reason Staley still has a job. To say that he carries 'more than his share of the load' is a considerable understatement. He carries; a poor coaching staff, bad ownership, head case players, mediocre Oline, no running game to speak of, and until this year shoddy special teams play (did I leave anything out? Cheerleading squad?) - it's ALL on him. Herbert must ALWAYS be at or near his best for the Chargers to be competitive - look at the games where he (for whatever reason) has been merely average - no chance. I've said it before and I'll say it again here; no QB in the league carries more responsibility than Herbert. Despite his quiet nature he's got to be one the most mentally tough SOB's in the league in order to be able to handle that pressure. It's really impressive as hell for a 24 year old 'kid'.

What he's been doing for the last 2 years (I don't count his rookie year) as far as carrying the team is concerned is not sustainable long term. He needs more help; better coaching, better Oline play, more dependable defense and running game. Just give him consistently average levels of coaching / play from these other facets of the team and we'll win 10 or 11 games every year.

[gzubeck]

21 and 22 versions of the Chargers would not have won more than 4 games per season without Herbert (at best). He's the only reason Staley still has a job. To say that he carries 'more than his share of the load' is a considerable understatement. He carries; a poor coaching staff, bad ownership, head case players, mediocre Oline, no running game to speak of, and until this year shoddy special teams play (did I leave anything out? Cheerleading squad?) - it's ALL on him. Herbert must ALWAYS be at or near his best for the Chargers to be competitive - look at the games where he (for whatever reason) has been merely average - no chance. I've said it before and I'll say it again here; no QB in the league carries more responsibility than Herbert. Despite his quiet nature he's got to be one the most mentally tough SOB's in the league in order to be able to handle that pressure. It's really impressive as hell for a 24 year old 'kid'.

What he's been doing for the last 2 years (I don't count his rookie year) as far as carrying the team is concerned is not sustainable long term. He needs more help; better coaching, better Oline play, more dependable defense and running game. Just give him consistently average levels of coaching / play from these other facets of the team and we'll win 10 or 11 games every year.

Defensive squads that crater at the first sign of a competent Run game by our opposition. LOL!

[Lefty2SLO]

Defensive squads that crater at the first sign of a competent Run game by our opposition. LOL!

OMG - how could I forget that??

[rensoul]

Our defense didnt change, it was Jax using different formations which made a difference for them. They also went hurry up at times as well which we havent adapted well too all year.

There is a video posted of this in here somewhere.

Staley needs to be able to adapt on the fly better.

The problem is I don't think he can at this point. Whether that's due to having too much on his plate or his own lack of experience as a DC, better more experienced coaches seem to out-coach him regularly and he doesn't adjust well.

After seeing the lack of adjustments, some terrible roster management and at times game management decisions I think he has too much on his plate to improve significantly.

If he wants to micro-manage the defense then I think he should hire an Assistant HC with prior HC experience to help out with HC responsibilities.

If he wants to focus more on HC duties then he needs to hire a real DC to handle the defense.
Based on his press conferences I don't think he's humble enough to do that.

I think he was hired a few seasons too early as a HC.

[rensoul]

21 and 22 versions of the Chargers would not have won more than 4 games per season without Herbert (at best). He's the only reason Staley still has a job. To say that he carries 'more than his share of the load' is a considerable understatement. He carries; a poor coaching staff, bad ownership, head case players, mediocre Oline, no running game to speak of, and until this year shoddy special teams play (did I leave anything out? Cheerleading squad?) - it's ALL on him. Herbert must ALWAYS be at or near his best for the Chargers to be competitive - look at the games where he (for whatever reason) has been merely average - no chance. I've said it before and I'll say it again here; no QB in the league carries more responsibility than Herbert. Despite his quiet nature he's got to be one the most mentally tough SOB's in the league in order to be able to handle that pressure. It's really impressive as hell for a 24 year old 'kid'.

What he's been doing for the last 2 years (I don't count his rookie year) as far as carrying the team is concerned is not sustainable long term. He needs more help; better coaching, better Oline play, more dependable defense and running game. Just give him consistently average levels of coaching / play from these other facets of the team and we'll win 10 or 11 games every year.

Yup, what they are doing is definitely not sustainable. Too often this past season the plan or lack of plan seemed to be let's hope this Qb bails the team out.

He threw almost 700 passes and suffered torn rib cartilage and a torn labrum. My concern is he gets ruined if the coaching staff and org don't step it up and he goes through 2-3 more seasons having to do the same thing.

[richpjr]

Yup, what they are doing is definitely not sustainable. Too often this past season the plan or lack of plan seemed to be let's hope this Qb bails the team out.

He threw almost 700 passes and suffered torn rib cartilage and a torn labrum. My concern is he gets ruined if the coaching staff and org don't step it up and he goes through 2-3 more seasons having to do the same thing.

If that any different than what KC does with Mahomes? He attempted 648 passes this year which is only 51 fewer times than Herbert did. Getting Herbert some help is a no brainer but teams always ride their good players.

[jubei]

I just pray they dont do to Justin what they did to Rivers...just hope their QB bails them out from every possible shitstorm.

[rensoul]

If that any different than what KC does with Mahomes? He attempted 648 passes this year which is only 51 fewer times than Herbert did. Getting Herbert some help is a no brainer but teams always ride their good players.

Look at what they did for him. They lose Hill so they bring in MVS, Juju, Toney, draft Moore and give him a serviceable running game and have invested a lot in the line along with superior coaching.

Yeah, they put a lot on him but are they hanging him out to dry with O-line depth as bad as Sarell, Norton and Clapp? Leaving him with players like Bandy and not signing anyone? KC averaged almost a full yard per carry more in rushing attempts than the Chargers.

Alao, big difference between the two is I think Mahomes is way better supported and his coaches are a team that helps him be better whereas Herbert has had to overcome mediocre coaching so I do believe their situations are very different.

If anything I think Herbert's situation was more similar to Brady this past season. Tampa had a bad running game, leaky O-line and terrible coaching that necessitated Brady being put into a bad situation and having to carry his team.

[Lefty2SLO]

Yup, what they are doing is definitely not sustainable. Too often this past season the plan or lack of plan seemed to be let's hope this Qb bails the team out.

He threw almost 700 passes and suffered torn rib cartilage and a torn labrum. My concern is he gets ruined if the coaching staff and org don't step it up and he goes through 2-3 more seasons having to do the same thing.

That's my concern as well. Too much over-reliance on his ability to fix everything. Like you I'm afraid he'll burn out or just get too beat up a la Philip Rivers.

[Lefty2SLO]

Look at what they did for him. They lose Hill so they bring in MVS, Juju, Toney, draft Moore and give him a serviceable running game and have invested a lot in the line along with superior coaching.

Yeah, they put a lot on him but are they hanging him out to dry with O-line depth as bad as Sarell, Norton and Clapp? Leaving him with players like Bandy and not signing anyone? KC averaged almost a full yard per carry more in rushing attempts than the Chargers.

Alao, big difference between the two is I think Mahomes is way better supported and his coaches are a team that helps him be better whereas Herbert has had to overcome mediocre coaching so I do believe their situations are very different.

If anything I think Herbert's situation was more similar to Brady this past season. Tampa had a bad running game, leaky O-line and terrible coaching that necessitated Brady being put into a bad situation and having to carry his team.

Rich is correct in that every team with an elite QB wants (needs) to 'ride' them, but it's a matter of degrees; as rensoul points out Mahomes has a much better support group overall than Herbert. KC usually has a plan, and if it's not working well they adjust. Mahomes does his thing working within that framework. Chargers on the other hand have a plan to start with, but if it's not working it feels like they just hope Justin can get them there. I'm sure they're trying to adjust, but they're not very good at it . . . .