Official Chargers News - Injury Updates

[Steve]

The big question is going to be if we draft a DL, what are we going to do with Liuget and Reyes? Reyes has under-performed for a while, and while he has had some very good games, he has sucked more often. Liuget is a good player, but he has the tools to be great, and he disappears for long stretches and has some big mistakes in terms of stupid penalties. So, is drafting a NT going to really be a guy to replace Carrethers, or is it more to find another DT type of guy, and play him at DE?

I don't think drafting a DE is out of the question, and in fact we probably need too. I just don't see DL in the 34 being real playmakers, so no need to target one too early. Middle round guy should be fine.

AS far as Shelton, I still don't see what people get excited about. The big knock is I don't see him as being explosive. He is not the guy who is going to lead the surge on 3rd and inches to stop the RB short of the line. Not his game. People compare him to Ngata, but that is just because they are both big. Ngata and Jamal Williams were both big guys who were explosive, and both can push the pocket and create big losses in the run game. Shelton is not that guy at all. He does shed blocks well, and I do think he will be a decent run defender. A high 1st round salary is a lot to pay a guy who is not disruptive. He doesn't rush the passer well at all. He can hold his ground, but he will never create negative plays. Carethers is a dude that can not only hold his ground, but can get some penetration, so he is the guy who is the bigger upside at NT.

[Yubaking]

The big question is going to be if we draft a DL, what are we going to do with Liuget and Reyes? Reyes has under-performed for a while, and while he has had some very good games, he has sucked more often. Liuget is a good player, but he has the tools to be great, and he disappears for long stretches and has some big mistakes in terms of stupid penalties. So, is drafting a NT going to really be a guy to replace Carrethers, or is it more to find another DT type of guy, and play him at DE?

I don't think drafting a DE is out of the question, and in fact we probably need too. I just don't see DL in the 34 being real playmakers, so no need to target one too early. Middle round guy should be fine.

AS far as Shelton, I still don't see what people get excited about. The big knock is I don't see him as being explosive. He is not the guy who is going to lead the surge on 3rd and inches to stop the RB short of the line. Not his game. People compare him to Ngata, but that is just because they are both big. Ngata and Jamal Williams were both big guys who were explosive, and both can push the pocket and create big losses in the run game. Shelton is not that guy at all. He does shed blocks well, and I do think he will be a decent run defender. A high 1st round salary is a lot to pay a guy who is not disruptive. He doesn't rush the passer well at all. He can hold his ground, but he will never create negative plays. Carethers is a dude that can not only hold his ground, but can get some penetration, so he is the guy who is the bigger upside at NT.

To me, it is clear that Reyes is a reserve DL that should play only in clear passing situations (2nd down and a mile or 3rd and long) so that his deficiencies against the run are not exposed. He is not a bad pass rushing interior DL player.

Liuget is a starter. I agree with you that Liuget disappears at times, but he is also completely dominant at other times. He is a good starter.

I think we need a starter opposite Liuget, so I also want us to draft a 3-4 DE, but the player must be stout versus the run. Alternatively, I have suggested the possibility of signing a player like Jared Odrick in free agency because I think we will run out of draft picks to draft everything we need and Odrick is solid versus the run. So, if the money is right, I think he warrants consideration.

I completely agree that we need more good OLBs and that we must improve our pass rush, exactly as you have previously stated. I would love for us to be able to sign Justin Houston, but I know that is wishful thinking, especially with all of our needs and our own free agents that we should try to keep. So, I want us to draft at least one OLB and even like the idea of us drafting two in the first three rounds.

Regarding Shelton, I do not think that he is the next Ngata. CBS's player comparison is to Wilfork, who is somewhat less athletic, but is very productive nonetheless. I think that is a pretty good call in terms of Shelton's potential upside. In my view, there is a large range between a player like Ngata and a player like Carrethers. I think a player like Shelton could be less than Ngata and still be a significant upgrade over Carrethers. And I am not down on Carrethers at all. I like him as a #2 NT and am eager to see how much he progresses for us this year.

Although I think Shelton's game is a little bit better than what you give him credit for in that I think he can make stuffs in short yardage and can get occasional pressure and can collapse the pocket, I agree that he may not be the BPA at #17. In fact, I think it is likely that he will not be the BPA at #17. But good NTs are rare, so I think that has to be weighed against another player that may be the BPA at a more abundant position that may also be a position of less need. The theory there is that we could get a good NT and a good player at the abundant position if we take Shelton first, but if we reverse the order, we may not get a good NT.

Finally, and on the other hand, it seems like all of the NTs hyped in the pre-draft build up in recent years end up falling in the draft. To me, that suggest the possibility of passing on Shelton at #17 and hoping that he falls to #48. And even further, it seems pretty clear to me that Telesco does not value NTs, so I am not expecting us to take Shelton even though I think he would be a good player for us to have.

[Boltjolt]

To me, it is clear that Reyes is a reserve DL that should play only in clear passing situations (2nd down and a mile or 3rd and long) so that his deficiencies against the run are not exposed. He is not a bad pass rushing interior DL player.

Liuget is a starter. I agree with you that Liuget disappears at times, but he is also completely dominant at other times. He is a good starter.

I think we need a starter opposite Liuget, so I also want us to draft a 3-4 DE, but the player must be stout versus the run. Alternatively, I have suggested the possibility of signing a player like Jared Odrick in free agency because I think we will run out of draft picks to draft everything we need and Odrick is solid versus the run. So, if the money is right, I think he warrants consideration.

I completely agree that we need more good OLBs and that we must improve our pass rush, exactly as you have previously stated. I would love for us to be able to sign Justin Houston, but I know that is wishful thinking, especially with all of our needs and our own free agents that we should try to keep. So, I want us to draft at least one OLB and even like the idea of us drafting two in the first three rounds.

Regarding Shelton, I do not think that he is the next Ngata. CBS's player comparison is to Wilfork, who is somewhat less athletic, but is very productive nonetheless. I think that is a pretty good call in terms of Shelton's potential upside. In my view, there is a large range between a player like Ngata and a player like Carrethers. I think a player like Shelton could be less than Ngata and still be a significant upgrade over Carrethers. And I am not down on Carrethers at all. I like him as a #2 NT and am eager to see how much he progresses for us this year.

Although I think Shelton's game is a little bit better than what you give him credit for in that I think he can make stuffs in short yardage and can get occasional pressure and can collapse the pocket, I agree that he may not be the BPA at #17. In fact, I think it is likely that he will not be the BPA at #17. But good NTs are rare, so I think that has to be weighed against another player that may be the BPA at a more abundant position that may also be a position of less need. The theory there is that we could get a good NT and a good player at the abundant position if we take Shelton first, but if we reverse the order, we may not get a good NT.

Finally, and on the other hand, it seems like all of the NTs hyped in the pre-draft build up in recent years end up falling in the draft. To me, that suggest the possibility of passing on Shelton at #17 and hoping that he falls to #48. And even further, it seems pretty clear to me that Telesco does not value NTs, so I am not expecting us to take Shelton even though I think he would be a good player for us to have.

At #17 one would be fool to pass on better talent to draft a NT because you feel it is the top need.....which i dont agree with. This team lacks playmakers so i wouldnt pass on a playmaker because Sheldon is there and we need a NT. He isnt going to be an immediate help.

[Steve]

To me, it is clear that Reyes is a reserve DL that should play only in clear passing situations (2nd down and a mile or 3rd and long) so that his deficiencies against the run are not exposed. He is not a bad pass rushing interior DL player.

Liuget is a starter. I agree with you that Liuget disappears at times, but he is also completely dominant at other times. He is a good starter.

I think we need a starter opposite Liuget, so I also want us to draft a 3-4 DE, but the player must be stout versus the run. Alternatively, I have suggested the possibility of signing a player like Jared Odrick in free agency because I think we will run out of draft picks to draft everything we need and Odrick is solid versus the run. So, if the money is right, I think he warrants consideration.

I completely agree that we need more good OLBs and that we must improve our pass rush, exactly as you have previously stated. I would love for us to be able to sign Justin Houston, but I know that is wishful thinking, especially with all of our needs and our own free agents that we should try to keep. So, I want us to draft at least one OLB and even like the idea of us drafting two in the first three rounds.

Regarding Shelton, I do not think that he is the next Ngata. CBS's player comparison is to Wilfork, who is somewhat less athletic, but is very productive nonetheless. I think that is a pretty good call in terms of Shelton's potential upside. In my view, there is a large range between a player like Ngata and a player like Carrethers. I think a player like Shelton could be less than Ngata and still be a significant upgrade over Carrethers. And I am not down on Carrethers at all. I like him as a #2 NT and am eager to see how much he progresses for us this year.

Although I think Shelton's game is a little bit better than what you give him credit for in that I think he can make stuffs in short yardage and can get occasional pressure and can collapse the pocket, I agree that he may not be the BPA at #17. In fact, I think it is likely that he will not be the BPA at #17. But good NTs are rare, so I think that has to be weighed against another player that may be the BPA at a more abundant position that may also be a position of less need. The theory there is that we could get a good NT and a good player at the abundant position if we take Shelton first, but if we reverse the order, we may not get a good NT.

Finally, and on the other hand, it seems like all of the NTs hyped in the pre-draft build up in recent years end up falling in the draft. To me, that suggest the possibility of passing on Shelton at #17 and hoping that he falls to #48. And even further, it seems pretty clear to me that Telesco does not value NTs, so I am not expecting us to take Shelton even though I think he would be a good player for us to have.

Even a 48, Shelton is a reach. He is just not going to be an impact player, and you still way, way overvalue run defense. There is no proof there is anything wrong with our interior run D. The outside and offtackle holes are a major problem, but they can be fixed by finding more disciplined players and guys who play with decent technique.

Adding player with too much bulk and not enough explosiveness is just a recipe for disaster. Watching the Senior bowl and the highlights that I can find of Washington D on the net, Shelton is a major laibility unless teams run right at him. He can get off of blocks and pursuit some, but he is too slow to catch players, and they are only going to get quicker and have more foot speed in the NFL. The fact that Shelton can't pass rush is a major problem, as his sacks all come against smaller players with marginal technique. He is going to go up against bigger and more more technically sound players in the NFL, and they will all know how to deal with guys who just have some power. he needs to develop some explosive moves to take advantage of his strength. I also worry about his interview at the senior bowl, where he had to quick lose 20-30 pounds that he gained after the season (he admitted he was up over 360, which means he probably weighed close to 370, then got his weight down to 343 for the weigh in at the start of the week). His weight is all over the place, and it hasn't been that long since he played in a game.

I don't see the comparison to Wilfork. Vince may be fat and have weight problems of a sort, but the guy has been pretty consistent even going back to college. The guy can't run well over a distance, but has only recently lost his first step. He has always taken advantage of his power by being able to get into blockers using that first step. But Shelton has no first step. Like Nix, he strikes out with his upper body, and doesn't get into the block. Shelton does at least have nice knee bend and leverage, so he is not useless like Nix, but he needs to take that hard first step and get into/under the pads of the OL, or he is just a guy. We can get tons of guys, smaller (less eight risk) and with as good technqiue later in the draft. The only reason to draft Shelton is based on his potential, because he really is athletic. But another fat guy just got his lard ass kicked out of football (Terrance Cody) and he was nearly as good an athlete (and more explosive).

The real problem I have is Don Johnson has yet to prove he can develop DL talent, and spending top picks there, regardless of position are just a waste of impact picks on players who simply tease us with their potential. And since Shelton has little potential to be an impact player, is it even worth a pick on him, even in the middle rounds? The reps are better spent on Carrethers. I agree that Liuget can be a dominant player, but we are coming to the point we have to pay him and we can't give him a huge contract and not have him showing up. How much of the up and down is going to get better? I would rather have more limited players (athletically) who play sound football (technically and mentally), since those guys are not going to give up the big plays that kill us. The routine plays, we are fine already, and would get better with players who are more sound.

As far as Reyes, I would be fine keeping him as a pass rushing specialist. He is still sloppy or poorly coached, and if he can develop his pass rush moves, then he can really help. But he is just about as inconsistent as a pass rusher as a run defender, and he is probably going to want a big payday, and he and Liuget just keeping hurting us as much as they help. Lissemore, MAthews, Guy (I know he is gone, but even before he was).... are better players (IMHO), not because of the plays they make, but they don't give up the huge holes. They don't have the upside, but we can't seem to develop DL, so I would rather go for discipline over unfulfilled potential.

The #1 priority, besides OL, just has to be OLB. Any D, that is trying to dominate, has to be getting close to 20 sacks (or more) from the edge. I would be suprised if we could get that from all our OLB together for the last 3 or 4 years combined. Our D was pretty good early and late in the year even though our edge rushers didn't get many sacks. We just need the pressure off the edge to get the QB off his set. But in the middle of the year, when all our edge rushers were hurt, our D sucked bad. OLB is the most important position in the 34. Those are the guys space, who can run the plays down. We have to get more production in both running and passing downs. If we do that, it makes everyone better, which we saw when the pass rush got better late last year, and early and late this year.

[UtahBolt]

I don't buy the hype on any of the Husky proposed first round defenders, especially on Shelton. How the hell does on 8-6 team give up 50+ points to Eastern Washington with three NFL first round draft picks on it?

[Faded blues]

Even a 48, Shelton is a reach. He is just not going to be an impact player, and you still way, way overvalue run defense. There is no proof there is anything wrong with our interior run D. The outside and offtackle holes are a major problem, but they can be fixed by finding more disciplined players and guys who play with decent technique.

Adding player with too much bulk and not enough explosiveness is just a recipe for disaster. Watching the Senior bowl and the highlights that I can find of Washington D on the net, Shelton is a major laibility unless teams run right at him. He can get off of blocks and pursuit some, but he is too slow to catch players, and they are only going to get quicker and have more foot speed in the NFL. The fact that Shelton can't pass rush is a major problem, as his sacks all come against smaller players with marginal technique. He is going to go up against bigger and more more technically sound players in the NFL, and they will all know how to deal with guys who just have some power. he needs to develop some explosive moves to take advantage of his strength. I also worry about his interview at the senior bowl, where he had to quick lose 20-30 pounds that he gained after the season (he admitted he was up over 360, which means he probably weighed close to 370, then got his weight down to 343 for the weigh in at the start of the week). His weight is all over the place, and it hasn't been that long since he played in a game.

I don't see the comparison to Wilfork. Vince may be fat and have weight problems of a sort, but the guy has been pretty consistent even going back to college. The guy can't run well over a distance, but has only recently lost his first step. He has always taken advantage of his power by being able to get into blockers using that first step. But Shelton has no first step. Like Nix, he strikes out with his upper body, and doesn't get into the block. Shelton does at least have nice knee bend and leverage, so he is not useless like Nix, but he needs to take that hard first step and get into/under the pads of the OL, or he is just a guy. We can get tons of guys, smaller (less eight risk) and with as good technqiue later in the draft. The only reason to draft Shelton is based on his potential, because he really is athletic. But another fat guy just got his lard ass kicked out of football (Terrance Cody) and he was nearly as good an athlete (and more explosive).

The real problem I have is Don Johnson has yet to prove he can develop DL talent, and spending top picks there, regardless of position are just a waste of impact picks on players who simply tease us with their potential. And since Shelton has little potential to be an impact player, is it even worth a pick on him, even in the middle rounds? The reps are better spent on Carrethers. I agree that Liuget can be a dominant player, but we are coming to the point we have to pay him and we can't give him a huge contract and not have him showing up. How much of the up and down is going to get better? I would rather have more limited players (athletically) who play sound football (technically and mentally), since those guys are not going to give up the big plays that kill us. The routine plays, we are fine already, and would get better with players who are more sound.

As far as Reyes, I would be fine keeping him as a pass rushing specialist. He is still sloppy or poorly coached, and if he can develop his pass rush moves, then he can really help. But he is just about as inconsistent as a pass rusher as a run defender, and he is probably going to want a big payday, and he and Liuget just keeping hurting us as much as they help. Lissemore, MAthews, Guy (I know he is gone, but even before he was).... are better players (IMHO), not because of the plays they make, but they don't give up the huge holes. They don't have the upside, but we can't seem to develop DL, so I would rather go for discipline over unfulfilled potential.

The #1 priority, besides OL, just has to be OLB. Any D, that is trying to dominate, has to be getting close to 20 sacks (or more) from the edge. I would be suprised if we could get that from all our OLB together for the last 3 or 4 years combined. Our D was pretty good early and late in the year even though our edge rushers didn't get many sacks. We just need the pressure off the edge to get the QB off his set. But in the middle of the year, when all our edge rushers were hurt, our D sucked bad. OLB is the most important position in the 34. Those are the guys space, who can run the plays down. We have to get more production in both running and passing downs. If we do that, it makes everyone better, which we saw when the pass rush got better late last year, and early and late this year.

Steve you crushed it. I will be waiting to read your posts from now on. Your analysis was spot on and insightful.

I have man crush going on right now

[bonehead]

Hey now!! take it to the "man crush" thread.....

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

Cleveland Browns Trade Rumors: Jordan Cameron Most Likely Leaving
By Cheri Cheng- 29 Jan '15 17:46PM
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(Photo : Getty Images Sport/ Gregory Shamus) Jordan Cameron will be a free agent in March.
Browns' fans might have just seen Jordan Cameron's last year in Cleveland. According to the latest rumors, the promising tight end will head into free agency this year and will most likely sign with another team.

Tony Grossi, a Browns analyst for ESPNCleveland.com, and ESPN 850 WKNR and 1540 KNR2, tweeted that Cameron will sign elsewhere.

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Yardbarker and NFL Draft Diamonds reported that the Browns offered Cameron a $6 to 7 million-per-year deal, which he turned down in order to test the free agent market.

Andrea Hanst with Bleacher Report added that replacing Cameron will be difficult, writing, "It's not so much that the Browns [would lose] Cameron specifically once free agency begins, but rather that they [would lose] a starter at a skill position. Replacing him becomes another daunting task on an ever-lengthening list of them."

Cameron, the Browns' fourth round draft pick in 2011, had a breakout year in 2013. He caught 80 passes for 917 yards and seven touchdowns. His numbers this year declined due to a concussion and shoulder injury, which forced Cameron to sit out 10 games. However, he still managed to catch 24 passed for 424 yards and two touchdowns.

The Cameron rumors came at a hard time for the fans and organization which recently found out that Josh Gordon will be suspended all of next year for failing a drug test. The wide receiver has had issues complying with the league's substance abuse policy.

[bonehead]

6-7 million a year is not nearly enough to stay in Cleveland

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

But is it enough to play in San Diego per say?

[bonehead]

Probably but I would rather put the money towards Demarius Thomas

[Steve]

I think the big problem for them is who wants to play in Cleveland at all. I love the Cleveland area, and have had some great times in the area (I know, laugh all you want, but it's true). But with Manziel and the Browns are a disaster right now. If I was a FA right now, I make Browns pay me a lot of extra money to stay. Several million more per year, and even then I consider any team who has a QB really seriously.

That being said, I am not sure Jordan is a great fit for us. We need a TE who can compliment the pass catchers. Jordan is another pass catcher. More of an inline guy, and a pretty good one, but still not a guy you can run behind. He is better at it then Gates and Green, but still not great.