Telesco needs to fix the massive problem in the trenches on both sides of the ball

[MassGeneralBolt]

Granted we've got major injury problems, but I think offensively the biggest problem this year is the lack of running game and holes to run thru. Until this team gets back to physical football especially on offense, this team will not be able to get over the hump. Fluker banged up and hurt has not played well, honestly dude needs to be moved to guard, not quick footed enough against quick rushers. The guard plays along the offensive line down right pathetic. Rivers getting killed back there and yet still single handedly keeps this team competing. Put Peyton Manning behind our offensive line and he cant do what Rivers can with the vagina he has between his legs. Rivers simply put is the toughest qb in the pocket.

Same issues with defensive front 7, there is no physicality, consistently getting blown off the line of scrimmage, cant stop the run and if you cant do that have no chance on defense in this league. Honestly wont be surprised if Telesco cuts ties with Butler the way dude has been playing. Looks as if Butler has lost his manhood out there, no sense of aggression, playing on his heels, forget it. Just tired of seeing the same finesse soft crap on D with this team with its front 7 play on D.

[SFW]

I agree that both lines should be upgraded in the off-season and I have no doubt that Telesco will work to do that. However, I think it is a little unfair to mention the injuries but still complain about the play. The offensive line is playing without Hardwick, Clary and a hobbled Fluker. The front seven has been playing without Ingram, Te'o and Attaochu and with a possibly injured Butler.

Yes, they can be playing better and not we should excuse everything because of injuries but we as fans should also temper our expectations when players like Troutmann, Ohrnberger, Gachkar, Conner, Dwight Freeney and Tourek Williams are forced into getting much more playing time than they ever should.

[Marshall/Boogie]

Oh, hey mgb.
The Bolts lost last night, but it's so weird to hear from you. ..

[QSmokey]

This must be a "Doctor" thing. Darius feels the same way, and has been trumpeting this for what seems like years.

However, as you pointed out, not having arguably our two best pass rushers is not helping one bit. How does Denver do without Miller and Ware?

[6025]

Nothing wrong with MGB's take.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

Granted we've got major injury problems, but I think offensively the biggest problem this year is the lack of running game and holes to run thru. Until this team gets back to physical football especially on offense, this team will not be able to get over the hump. Fluker banged up and hurt has not played well, honestly dude needs to be moved to guard, not quick footed enough against quick rushers. The guard plays along the offensive line down right pathetic. Rivers getting killed back there and yet still single handedly keeps this team competing. Put Peyton Manning behind our offensive line and he cant do what Rivers can with the vagina he has between his legs. Rivers simply put is the toughest qb in the pocket.

Same issues with defensive front 7, there is no physicality, consistently getting blown off the line of scrimmage, cant stop the run and if you cant do that have no chance on defense in this league. Honestly wont be surprised if Telesco cuts ties with Butler the way dude has been playing. Looks as if Butler has lost his manhood out there, no sense of aggression, playing on his heels, forget it. Just tired of seeing the same finesse soft crap on D with this team with its front 7 play on D.

I agree with the basic premise of your post. We definitely need to upgrade in the trenches. Been saying that for some time now.

However, I find the specifics a little disingenuous. Where was this point of view when Mathews and Woodhead were moving the pile despite the bad o-line? Where were you with these arguments when we were healthier? When we were on a five game winning streak?

Hardwick and Woodhead are not coming back. Clary might not. But either way, those injuries are going to be felt all year long. Attaochu, Te'o and Ingram will hopefully be back and should add quite a bit vs the run and in terms of pass rush. But I do agree that Andrew Gachkar was totally exposed last night. *RME*

[Yubaking]

Granted we've got major injury problems, but I think offensively the biggest problem this year is the lack of running game and holes to run thru. Until this team gets back to physical football especially on offense, this team will not be able to get over the hump. Fluker banged up and hurt has not played well, honestly dude needs to be moved to guard, not quick footed enough against quick rushers. The guard plays along the offensive line down right pathetic. Rivers getting killed back there and yet still single handedly keeps this team competing. Put Peyton Manning behind our offensive line and he cant do what Rivers can with the vagina he has between his legs. Rivers simply put is the toughest qb in the pocket.

Same issues with defensive front 7, there is no physicality, consistently getting blown off the line of scrimmage, cant stop the run and if you cant do that have no chance on defense in this league. Honestly wont be surprised if Telesco cuts ties with Butler the way dude has been playing. Looks as if Butler has lost his manhood out there, no sense of aggression, playing on his heels, forget it. Just tired of seeing the same finesse soft crap on D with this team with its front 7 play on D.

I agree that both lines have looked soft at times this year. I think we worked around it on offense last year with our quick passes and zone blocking scheme, but have been less successful this year with the running game. On defense, we suffered last year and continue to suffer against the run this year (notwithstanding the protestations of some on this board).

It is interesting that somebody in this thread has suggested moving Fluker to OG because the same idea had crossed my mind in my early study of the 2015 draft candidates. (I kind of like Corey Robinson, OT, South Carolina as a nice, potentially cheap mid round swing tackle candidate.) As a draft philosophy, I would rather draft a OT and a OG than draft two OGs because college OTs tend to be more likely to be able to play OG than vice versa as most college OGs can't play OT in the NFL.

Regarding our defensive front, I continue to believe that we need to be more stout up front and at ILB. The words "not physical enough" keep coming into my mind when I watch us against the run. Opposing ball carriers break tackles, push the pile, fall forward and have room to run before contact--all of which appears to be due to a lack of physicality on the part of our defense. Our guys look not strong enough at times to make the kinds of plays that more physical defenders from other teams make routinely. To me, it is not all about technique. There is a comparative lack of power/aggression up front for us and I think it is very, very obvious.

Butler seems to have lost a step this year and is much less aggressive than he used to be. Te'o never will be a physical player. Lissemore gets overmatched in the middle at times. Liuget makes spectacular plays at times, but even he is not a physical dominator on the line. Reyes is soft. We still do not have a run stuffer in the middle and we are still left in limbo waiting for someone like Carrethers or Geathers to develop or needing to get someone.

I think we have essentially ignored the issue for a season and a half and I hope that this offseason we finally take measures to correct the problem. If how Telesco and our coaches upgraded the offense last year and the pass defense this year are any indication of what our team management is capable of, then I have confidence that they will succeed if they finally make the problem a priority.

[Coachmarkos]

They should really just go out and get all the best free agent linemen.

That easy.

Oh, and draft 3 pro bowl players next year.

Done. Next!

[OhioBolt]

I agree with the basic premise of your post. We definitely need to upgrade in the trenches. Been saying that for some time now.

However, I find the specifics a little disingenuous. Where was this point of view when Mathews and Woodhead were moving the pile despite the bad o-line? Where were you with these arguments when we were healthier? When we were on a five game winning streak?

Hardwick and Woodhead are not coming back. Clary might not. But either way, those injuries are going to be felt all year long. Attaochu, Te'o and Ingram will hopefully be back and should add quite a bit vs the run and in terms of pass rush. But I do agree that Andrew Gachkar was totally exposed last night. *RME*

Hardwick I can see he was debating coming back prior to this season, Woodhead I am not sure where that is coming from, so going into 2015 the RB's under contract would be Donald Brown and Brandon Oliver. Ryan Mathews is no lock to be back. Agree Clary probably will not be back, but if he is we need upgrade on the OL period. I don't think the OT play is as bad as people think, it has more so to do with the Guard play, lets not forget we faced KC (Houston & Tamba Hali) and Den(Miller & Ware) guys who bring it to the QB.

[richpjr]

Woodhead signed an extension before the season

[sandiego17]

Hardwick I can see he was debating coming back prior to this season, Woodhead I am not sure where that is coming from

I read it as this season?

[Yubaking]

Woodhead signed an extension before the season

Spotrac says Woodhead is an unrestricted free agent in 2015.