2014 Official Draft Thread

[Mister Hoarse]

I guess the reason I love Barr so much is he has a lot of Junior in his game.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

I see what people complain about, but for us he might be a very good selection. I think most of the astute observers on this board think we're really about making a push in 2015, which is not to say that we take a pass on 2014. But from what I have seen, Barr has skills we can use right now. I'm pretty impressed with our coaching staff and unless this kid is a mental or lacks desire, I'd be confident on betting on his potential. On a sidenote, we've heard a lot of this kind of talk before on players taken late in the first round in recent years. Chandler Jones and Bruce irvin come to mind. Both players have been able to make immediate contributions even while ratcheting up their games.

[Yubaking]

You "think" is about the extent of it.

I'm not interested in your intellectual meanderings that are not evidence-based, demonstrate a lack of actual football knowledge and consist of a series of unjustified condescensions.

Gill Byrd 5'11" 195

Look at video clips of the two players. Fuller is better against the run. Really, it is not close. If Verrett could get to the ball carrier before he was blocked, he usually made the play. If even an average sized WR got his hands onto Verrett, Verrett was completely neutralized--every time on the multiple clips I saw. Fuller beat blockers and was much more aggressive and effective against the run than Verrett was, especially doing a very good job of closing on ball carriers and making solid albeit not bone crunching contact on them and tackling them.

Against the pass it was closer, but Verrett did get beat at least once in every video on a high ball that really was not all that high. He appears very vulnerable to those plays. He also got called for pass interference in the end zone when he tried to elevate himself for a high ball by pushing on a WR. One thing that showed up that we didn't talk about was that Verrett appears susceptible to push offs. On one play, Verrett literally got knocked three yards back on a basic push off. Just like in the NFL, there was no offensive PI call.

Verrett appears to be able to close a little faster than Fuller when he is beat. Fuller appears to have better ball skills. Pass defense was at best a push for Verrett.

Fuller is just better.

[blahblahblah]

AriNissim: Position Importance: 1st. QB, 2nd QB, 3rd. Pass Rusher, then depends on scheme. Players that affect every play of game are more important

this this this this. Look what Simeon Rice did for that weak ass Tampa 2 defense.

[blahblahblah]

Look at video clips of the two players. Fuller is better against the run. Really, it is not close.

It must be nice in your world. Nothing is ever close.

[Panama]

According to my proptiotary research a good tackling CB will be 5'8 to 5'11' 190 to 205 pounds. The lower center of gravity of about 1.125" creates exceptional tackling leverage...

Less than 456 words and 6 paragraphs. Not bad huh?

I have no idea what "proptiotary" means (proprietary?), but brilliant post! Unfortunately, "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Stinky Wizzleteats+ again."

[Panama]

Vs a Norv offence size matters...

Why?

Becuase Norvs a pussy!

Wouldn't smaller be better, then?

[Yubaking]

It must be nice in your world. Nothing is ever close.

So, it is not possible for a player to be significantly better than another player in one area of the game (run defense) and for the same two players to be close in another area of the game (pass defense)?

It is humorous that in your statement you would quote a post in which I stated "Against the pass it was closer..." and "Pass defense was at best a push for Verrett." You do get that by acknowledging that something could be a push, that is an admission that it could be pretty close between the two players against the pass?! Do you see how that undermines what you said in your post?

As for the issue of run defense, I actually left out a couple of observations. When Verrett made tackles against ball carriers, the ball carrier frequently gained an extra yard or two after contact. Fuller was better at limiting yards after contact by a good yard or so per play. And it was even scary bad to see an average sized WR drive Verrett 10-15 yards straight back on one running play. The play ended up not going to Verrett's side, but there was a pasture there if it had gone to his side.

I get that everyone wants to root for the little guy, but I just can't imagine NFL executives missing these things that even I was able to see.

[Steve]

Fullers tackling better isn't a size thing, it is a technique and confidence thing.

Vernette comes in with a soft chest and doesn't arch his back and is somewhat over extended, because he is looking down. He needs to focus on putting his facemask into the guys chest, and driving through the tackle.

Fuller comes in and does the perfect form tackle, although he does have a tendency to just hit, and not wrap up. That works pretty well in college, but you won't be consistent tackling if you try the hitting thing in the NFL, your going to bounce off a lot.

[Mister Hoarse]

Fullers tackling better isn't a size thing, it is a technique and confidence thing.

Vernette comes in with a soft chest and doesn't arch his back and is somewhat over extended, because he is looking down. He needs to focus on putting his facemask into the guys chest, and driving through the tackle.

Fuller comes in and does the perfect form tackle, although he does have a tendency to just hit, and not wrap up. That works pretty well in college, but you won't be consistent tackling if you try the hitting thing in the NFL, your going to bounce off a lot.

Shareece Wright logo:

So who among the elite CBs in the draft are the best at wrapping up?

[Yubaking]

Fullers tackling better isn't a size thing, it is a technique and confidence thing.

Vernette comes in with a soft chest and doesn't arch his back and is somewhat over extended, because he is looking down. He needs to focus on putting his facemask into the guys chest, and driving through the tackle.

Fuller comes in and does the perfect form tackle, although he does have a tendency to just hit, and not wrap up. That works pretty well in college, but you won't be consistent tackling if you try the hitting thing in the NFL, your going to bounce off a lot.

I do not believe I ever stated why Fuller is a better tackler, just that he is. We are in agreement on that point.

What I am getting at is that if you study the game clips of both players, Fuller is pretty clearly better against the run and they are close against the pass with Fuller doing some things better and Verrett doing others better. In my mind, this makes Fuller the better player without any discussion of size.

Others have stated here that they would prefer to get a taller CB all other things being equal. My point is that the game clips show that Fuller is actually better than, not just equal to Verrett, but even if it were just a tie, if we go CB, we should still take Fuller over Verrett based upon using length as a tie breaker.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

It must be nice in your world. Nothing is ever close.

Yeah, it sucks for me. Life seems to be a lot more variations of gray. It's probably that I'm just not smart enough combined with the fact that I have to live life real time as opposed to cherry picked "clips."