2014 Official Draft Thread

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

Unlike most people, you seem to be OK with using him as a role player. I am too.

The league has become so specialized that I am not sure how people necessarily have a problem with it. You draft guys that can excel in roles. The key then is making sure you have a staff that knows how to carve out those roles and coach players to deploy the resources properly.

Some highly effective players have been drafted in recent years because they were seen as one-dimensional. But teams like New England, SF, Seattle and the championship NYG of a few years ago have had success working like that.

[Steve]

I think most announcers and many fans still do. A lot of the guys I talk football with at work still think starters play the majority of the time, which really hasn't necessarily been the case since any of us were kids. But the myth persists.

Mike Mayock was knocking Michael Sam right after the announcement, basically saying how he might only be able to be a pass rush specialist and ST guy as a 5th round guy. And he definitely made it sound like he considered it a big negative. But I remember thinking, if we could get a guy who is a decent pass rusher (even if just a specialist) and someone who can play on ST, in the 5th round, I'm fine with that. My thinking is another Antwan Barnes type of guy to be the 4th or 5th OLB/DE type on the roster is OK, provided he can really get after the QB.

[Wheels]

I think the case for Donald can be summed up with a BPA philosophy. You get as many good football players as possible and let them do their thing. I get that some guys fit our scheme better than others, but since he excels at pass rushing, can't we find enough opportunities to turn him loose? Sounds like he will be gone anyway. I'm sure some team in the teens falls in love with him.

[Yubaking]

Saw his hiegt and wrote him off, did ya? Ha, watch him play. Its all on tape. Put the pads on him and he can play. Like Sproles. You cant write him off untill you see him play, and from that point he will not allow you write him off becuase he can flat out play this game.

Fleet is wise imo. Talk to us about his game tape, not your predisposition to group players with positions based on "looking the part"...

I didn't write Donald off at all. I downgraded him slightly based upon a lack of physical traits that might be valued at the next level. Like Sproles, I do not want my team to invest its first round pick on a player with a perceived shortcoming. In Sproles' case, his smallness/shortness made GMs believe he was not an every down back. In Donald's case, his smallness and short arms suggest that he may have trouble in not getting controlled by bigger, longer armed blockers. This type of analysis is what GMs do all of the time. For the right team, I think Donald is a second round value. Based upon his physical shortcomings, I would not make him a first round guy.

The second problem with Donald relates more to what the Chargers do on defense. Donald does not fit either our scheme or player type needs at this time. As Steve and others recognize, Donald is not going to play 3-4 NT at 285 pounds. As a 3-4 DE, he is a question mark as he is more of a quickness guy than a brute that can effectively occupy blockers.

Further, we are at a point where our defense has more of finesse type players at DE. Liuget is average at best in terms of physicality and Reyes is below average in that respect. With no meaningful physical presence at NT, this makes our starting DL soft as a unit. Donald does not improve the defense in terms of making it more stout on the DL. I am not suggesting that Donald cannot play in the NFL, just that there are questions about how he fits into any defense given his size and that he is an incredibly poor fit for our defense given what we already have and what we need.

My hope is that we turn Reyes into a reserve that comes in on pass rushing downs and get a 3-4 DE that is more stout to start opposite Liuget and that we get a legitimate starting NT.

The defense absolutely has to get manned up a bit. That's why I do not want us even to think about getting any OLBs that cannot also defend against running plays right at them. We need to say "no" to Dee Ford and Ryan Shazier. They are exactly what our defense does not need at this point.

[Yubaking]

I think the case for Donald can be summed up with a BPA philosophy. You get as many good football players as possible and let them do their thing. I get that some guys fit our scheme better than others, but since he excels at pass rushing, can't we find enough opportunities to turn him loose? Sounds like he will be gone anyway. I'm sure some team in the teens falls in love with him.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see him passed over until the second round as most of the teams needing a 4-3 DT draft in the first half of each round. He does not represent value in the first half of round 1 and does not play a position of great need by any of the teams drafting in the second half of round 1. Therefore, I think it is likely that he will get picked by a 4-3 team in round 2.

[Steve]

The thing I don't buy with BPA is that teams are made up of collections of players working together. You can take the idea of BPA too literally. And Donald may be a case where it is best to not do so. Which is a shame, because I don't think of him as the BPA at 25, but he is possibly the best defensive player in the draft.

Part of what I really liked with Ingram was the fact that he can play DT, DE, ILB and OLB. I can't see us using that versatility because we also have Liuget and Reyes. So, I really don't see how we have enough reps in practice or games to get the best out of everyone, let alone adding Donald.

Now, I do like the idea of a 25 D with Donald playing Nose LB. After watching him play some, and watching his agility drills at the combine, I think he could fill that sort of role. But I am not aware of any NFL team that has used a nose LB in the last 10+ years, so I really don't see us going in that direction. I do think someone will revive the idea at some point, because teams like the Giants already stock their roster with as many DE types as they can. Their SOLB are all guys they try our as pass rushers. They carry a minimum of true DT. They slide their bigger DE inside to play DT on passing downs. The 34 equivalent to that would be to play guys like JJ, Ingram and Donalrd at Nose Backer, and then stock up on as many OLB types as possible, possibly even playing only 1 ILB, and then asking one of the OLB types to drop into coverage (taking it in turns).

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see him passed over until the second round as most of the teams needing a 4-3 DT draft in the first half of each round. He does not represent value in the first half of round 1 and does not play a position of great need by any of the teams drafting in the second half of round 1. Therefore, I think it is likely that he will get picked by a 4-3 team in round 2.

Worth bookmarking.

[Yubaking]

The thing I don't buy with BPA is that teams are made up of collections of players working together. You can take the idea of BPA too literally. And Donald may be a case where it is best to not do so. Which is a shame, because I don't think of him as the BPA at 25, but he is possibly the best defensive player in the draft.

Part of what I really liked with Ingram was the fact that he can play DT, DE, ILB and OLB. I can't see us using that versatility because we also have Liuget and Reyes. So, I really don't see how we have enough reps in practice or games to get the best out of everyone, let alone adding Donald.

Now, I do like the idea of a 25 D with Donald playing Nose LB. After watching him play some, and watching his agility drills at the combine, I think he could fill that sort of role. But I am not aware of any NFL team that has used a nose LB in the last 10+ years, so I really don't see us going in that direction. I do think someone will revive the idea at some point, because teams like the Giants already stock their roster with as many DE types as they can. Their SOLB are all guys they try our as pass rushers. They carry a minimum of true DT. They slide their bigger DE inside to play DT on passing downs. The 34 equivalent to that would be to play guys like JJ, Ingram and Donalrd at Nose Backer, and then stock up on as many OLB types as possible, possibly even playing only 1 ILB, and then asking one of the OLB types to drop into coverage (taking it in turns).

It is funny that you raise this discussion about Donald. Others raised the possibility of him playing OLB, but it occurred to me that if he is quick enough in change of direction, I might want him to lose 15 pounds and play ILB. To me, he has good enough straight line speed for a front 7 player (4.68 at 285 pounds) and he could potentially be a great run stuffer at ILB at 270 pounds, especially with a big, block consuming NT playing in front of him. The thing to remember is that he is faster than Te'o and would probably be at least as fast as Butler with 15 less pounds on him, but the question, of course, is whether he could avoid getting lost in coverage and whether or not he has the same instincts at ILB as he does at DT. His 10 yard speed was pretty good at 1.59.

If he were to play ILB, we would flip his size from a liability into an asset. That would definitely qualify as manning up defense and we could well have a need at ILB with the potential departure of Butler.

I know it sounds kind of crazy, but I would be interested in knowing if Donald can play anything other than 4-3 DT, especially whether or not he can play ILB. It makes me curious about his pro day and what he will do there.

[Beerman]

He's a 4-3 DT. His best attribute is his hand use from what I've gathered. There's not much point over analyzing this.

[Yubaking]

He's a 4-3 DT. His best attribute is his hand use from what I've gathered. There's not much point over analyzing this.

You are probably right and that will probably hurt him at the next level.

Out of curiosity, I watched video of Donald against Georgia Tech in which he made 6 tackles for loss. Most of them were flat out blunders by the Georgia Tech OL in which they would not block Donald at all or dive at his feet to cut him, but completely miss him. My expectation would be that any DL player would have had penetration on those plays. It was impressive that Donald got to the QB on an option play twice before he could pitch the ball because he did have to cover some distance quickly, but less so under the circumstances (not being blocked). On one of the other tackles for loss, Donald beat his man and was at the line of scrimmage and the RB jumped backward turning a no gain or half a yard gain into a two yard loss.

Also, there was one play on which Donald did not avoid the blocker and was blocked about 5 yards down the field. That's exactly my concern about bigger, longer armed OL players playing against Donald at the next level.

[Beerman]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000329386/article/jeremiah-browns-enamored-with-carr-not-manziel?campaign=Twitter_atl

Interesting development here if it's true. With us sitting at 25 and the Browns behind us, any team that wants Carr needs us as a partner potentially to leap frog the Browns. This could setup nicely if we are looking to trade back. QBs make teams do stupid things. A lot of those teams that pass on a QB in the top of the draft will be looking to move back up.

[blueman]

I think the case for Donald can be summed up with a BPA philosophy. You get as many good football players as possible and let them do their thing. I get that some guys fit our scheme better than others, but since he excels at pass rushing, can't we find enough opportunities to turn him loose? Sounds like he will be gone anyway. I'm sure some team in the teens falls in love with him.

Does seem he'll be gone before we pick. But yeah, his "thing" seems to be the very thing we're missing from our front 7.

Bman, my thinking would be to play Donald in the rush line, so it wouldn't be about him staying in his lane, just getting to the QB (which we don't seem to do that well currently). And, if he also serves to push Luiget/Reyes, cuz they really need one, all the better.