2014 Official Draft Thread

[Steve]

Saw his hiegt and wrote him off, did ya? Ha, watch him play. Its all on tape. Put the pads on him and he can play. Like Sproles. You cant write him off untill you see him play, and from that point he will not allow you write him off becuase he can flat out play this game.

Fleet is wise imo. Talk to us about his game tape, not your predisposition to group players with positions based on "looking the part"...

Hold on.

I think Donald is one of the best players and best prospects in this draft. But I have to agree that he is not going to play NT, especially at 285 lbs.

When you think about players, think what do we ask a NT to do? What is his assignment, what does the NT do in our D? He has to stand in and take on blocks. Is that what Donald does well? I can't say that I have seen him do that well. You are totally missing the point of him as a player if you think we can draft him and plug him into our D the way it is an expect him to be productive. It will not happen.

If we draft him, we have to be willing to adjust things and let him line up on the edge of a blocker, and attack into the backfield. If you do that, then , Donald is the guy. He is a short, thick bodied guy who has great power and build. He plays with leverage and has the best hand use I have ever seen in a college DL. If we can get him in the 1st, we should either switch to the 43 (as a penetrating DT), or to some hybrid of the Fritz Shurmuir Eagle D (2 DL, 4 or 5 LB), and play Donald as a Nose LB, where he gets singled up on one guy, and the other guys around him are covered up so he can't get doubled teamed easily.

This guy has the speed, quickness and technique to be great, but you cannot turn him into something that he is not. He is not a guy who takes on blocks, and no one can change that.

If we insist on using him as a 34 DE, we have to change teh way we play D. Then forget the idea of playing a regular 34 D, and play hybrid like Seattle or Jags do, which is really a 43 D. We need an big, powerful OLB type to line up next to him. That OLB becomes basically a 43 RDE, can probably plays with his hand on the ground. Then, make sure the NT is big and powerful, to occupy some blockers, because the guy next to Donald can't be a penetrating upfield guy like Donald is. One of them has to occupy blockers so that Donald can do what he does. You can move Donald around inside some, play him at NT some, but only if you put our DE over the OG, so they cannot double team him. Donald could play NT, but not a 34 NT, he could be a penetrating DT/NT, like was popular in the 46 D, where all he has to do is beat the C man on man. But that is going to put a lot of pressure on the OLB, who are going to have no help from the DL, and will have to take on 330 lb OT all by themselves, and they will get doubled teamed by the TE/FB and the OT.

So then the real question is what to do with our DE? I think the biggest problem with drafting Donald is that we already have 2 penetrating DT types in Reyes and Liuget. Both would be ideally suited to be 3 technique DT themselves. They are much better fits to be the under DT in a 43. So, is our problem that we don't have a penetrating DT, or that we don't use the ones we have very well? And do we have any confidence that we would do any better with Donald?

[Steve]

I want him to rush the passer, seems he can do that from anywhere along the dline.

You've seen him get around the corner? I don't doubt he has some speed, but can he change direction well enough? That is where most 34DE fail as outside pass rushers, even if they have the speed to get upfield, they can't turn in and close on the QB.

I don't have a problem drafting Donald as a backup/pass rusher with our 1st pick. In the end, even if he is not a starter, he would play more. But it is going to take a team with a thick skin even if he is successful, because he may never be a full time player.

Oh, and no matter who and how well he does inside, we still have our issues at OLB. We HAVE to get OLB who can rush the passer at some point.

[Beerman]

Jernigan is a guy we should be looking at NT if Nix doesn't drop.
Granted he may be gone too. He brings a bit more explosiveness than Nix, but slightly less girth. I think he would be a guy that could rotate at DT in our 4 man line as well eventually.

There is just so much talent this draft.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

Steve, you hold on! I do not see him especialy, or ant draft prospect in this draft as a plug and play 3/4 NT. That said if you can get Donald at 25 you find a way to max his current abilities and develope his long term potential. He may never be a 3/4 NT. He might a great 3 down plater early on though and a great rotation player right away at DE. Looking at the results of our DE's, one could make an argument we ask them to penetrate rather then engadge blockers if so is Donald not a good fit already?

I agree with favoring a 4/3 if we draft him, especialy becuase of Freeney and how the two can push help eachother.

[blueman]

I have more faith Donald can get around the corner than I have in some DE-to-OLB types to, oh, say, drop into coverage. Yet teams will draft somebody high who has hardly ever done that, cuz they think he can.

Just think (yeah, I'm aware of the irony) Donald's innate ability in a few key areas separate him from the pack somewhat, and like you say, Steve, he's good value for us where we pick.

[Beerman]

Steve, you hold on! I do not see him especialy, or ant draft prospect in this draft as a plug and play 3/4 NT. That said if you can get Donald at 25 you find a way to max his current abilities and develope his long term potential. He may never be a 3/4 NT. He might a great 3 down plater early on though and a great rotation player right away at DE. Looking at the results of our DE's, one could make an argument we ask them to penetrate rather then engadge blockers if so is Donald not a good fit already?

I agree with favoring a 4/3 if we draft him, especialy becuase of Freeney and how the two can push help eachother.

3 down player huh, what about our current 1st and 2nd round picks at DE. Again, there are just not enough snaps at the position to justify a first rounder IMO. Not to mention we have Lissemore rotating as well and he's signed for like 3 years too at 1 mill per.

[Beerman]

Pass rush, pass rush, pass rush. If there's none worth the pick (which I expect), then we ideally have Nix or Jernigan on the board. Both of those are gone ok, are any of the CB's or elite WR's worth the pick.

That would be my plan of attack going into the draft. Ideally the grades and BPA fit the needs of the team.

[blueman]

Our current rotation on the dline was not near what it needs to be, bman, we gotta have better guys subbing in, Luiget and Reyes can't stay in games as long as they were doing last season and have any kind of longevity. IMO we need both an upgrade to Thomas (if he's at his ceiling), and another quality DE; the DE won't come cheap in FA, or from a low draft pick whereas NT we can upgrade ala Lissemore or coach up Geathers or a mid round draft pick, for what we need at NT there are reasonable options. Not so at DE, it's either $$$ or a high pick. Or watching Luiget and Reyes do too much gasping. Just don't see 3 really good DEs as a luxury, not the way we play the position, we need 3 (ala when we had Ceasaire rotating in... who took years to develop, don't think Rivers has the time).

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

As a DE in our defence would it not hurt to have an undersized technickly advanced player who can run fast enough after a play brakes down to stop a runnung QB before he gets a first down?

[Beerman]

How I see things shaping up and the players that likely go before we pick.

QBs (3) - Manziel, Bridgewater, Bortles,
OT (4) - Robinson, Matthews, Lewan, Martin
WR (4) Watkins, Evans, Benjamin, Lee
TE - Ebron

ILB - Mosley
OLB (3)- Barr, Clowney, Mack
DT (3) - Donald, Jernigan, Nix
CB (3) - Denard, Jerrett, Gilbert
S (2)- Clinton Dix, Pryor


Here are 24 players I think go before our pick. Ideally one of the guys we need drop. Another QB can easily move up, so can some WRs if there's an early run on them.

In an ideal world we can get a pass rusher or one of the big DTs. I don't see it happening in the first. We end up with Brandon Cooks.

[Beerman]

As a DE in our defence would it not hurt to have an undersized technickly advanced player who can run fast enough after a play brakes down to stop a runnung QB before he gets a first down?

That's the OLB. Our DEs job is to move the QB out of the pocket laterally (into the OLB) and collapse it.

Our DEs do a lot of dirty work. Everything is setup for the OLB and ILB to be the studs of the D. Everything is supposed to flow to them to make the tackles/sacks.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

I prefer CBs who can stay in the same zip code as the WRs.

Or that LOL