2014 Official Draft Thread

[Steve]

The big thing in college football is going to these nickle/dime looks for their base D. The idea is that you take a good DB type of guy, sub them in and have them play LB. What you lose in terms of being stout, you more then make up for in their ability to run. The 44 look that is really popular now is the old high school 44 D, only instead of real LB, you play 2 SS types outside. I like the idea in principle. Back 5-10 years ago, colleges still had a lot of these king sized, in the box SS types running around. Most of them were good players, just not what NFL teams wanted in terms of an true NFL S. I always thought if you wanted to, you could play a D with 2 of them as the OLB in the 44 and a FS, like these college teams do. But then the supply of extra S types dried up.

It is a cool idea, but you have to have the right personnel, and we've been struggling to find S as it is. If you were going to play it as your regular D, you really would need at least 5 S (3 guys on the field and 2 backups) who can play, and a lot of teams can't find the 3 they need now, let alone any more. You spend so much time in the nickle D anyway, why pretend you are a base this, or base that. Just go ahead and find the best players and play them in most situations. So many college teams play their spread all the time, you practically have to do it anyway. But in the NFL, teams still play a lot of pro offense, and the S supply is kinda bad.

Back in the late 80's, the Falcons and Cards both experimented with their base D being a nickle package. Atlanta made their overly complicated, and kept adjusting themselves into bad matchups. They were scared to death that someone was going to run them into the ground. That and one of their SS types was an undersized LB who had trouble in coverage. Fritz Shurmuir only did it in Az because he was desperate. He only had about 6 or 7 guys who really starters in the NFL, and then in the middle of a season, playing a 34 D, most of his LB got hurt at the same time. He also had a great SS, and it let him move the guy around like a LB or like Sean Dawkins to get mismatches. But he only had 1 guy who could rush the QB and he needed him at LB on run downs, and a ton of HUGE DL. They were so big, that big old Reuben Davis was a DE for them in their 4 man line. Fritz still played with it some in GB when he left AZ, but it was never his base D in GB.

Sutton can be a 34 DE, or probably better yet, a 3 technique DT. The guy is not that stout to handle the double team, but he can run, get penetration and get after the QB.

Haggeman might be a good prospect because he could start at DE, and then as you got him to bulk up he could probably play inside. Still, he scares me. A guy who moves like that, and can be as physical as he flashes, yet really doesn't make plays. He spends a lot of time for a big guy running around people. I don't think he has that mean streak you look for in DL. If we had a DL coach who was better at pushing guys buttons, or a guy like Jamal to mentor him, I would like the idea of drafting him a whole lot more. But we already have Johnson and Pagano's hands full with Liuget and Reyes. I don't think he is as good a fit for us.

[Fleet]

The big thing in college football is going to these nickle/dime looks for their base D. The idea is that you take a good DB type of guy, sub them in and have them play LB. What you lose in terms of being stout, you more then make up for in their ability to run. The 44 look that is really popular now is the old high school 44 D, only instead of real LB, you play 2 SS types outside. I like the idea in principle. Back 5-10 years ago, colleges still had a lot of these king sized, in the box SS types running around. Most of them were good players, just not what NFL teams wanted in terms of an true NFL S. I always thought if you wanted to, you could play a D with 2 of them as the OLB in the 44 and a FS, like these college teams do. But then the supply of extra S types dried up.

It is a cool idea, but you have to have the right personnel, and we've been struggling to find S as it is. If you were going to play it as your regular D, you really would need at least 5 S (3 guys on the field and 2 backups) who can play, and a lot of teams can't find the 3 they need now, let alone any more. You spend so much time in the nickle D anyway, why pretend you are a base this, or base that. Just go ahead and find the best players and play them in most situations. So many college teams play their spread all the time, you practically have to do it anyway. But in the NFL, teams still play a lot of pro offense, and the S supply is kinda bad.

Back in the late 80's, the Falcons and Cards both experimented with their base D being a nickle package. Atlanta made their overly complicated, and kept adjusting themselves into bad matchups. They were scared to death that someone was going to run them into the ground. That and one of their SS types was an undersized LB who had trouble in coverage. Fritz Shurmuir only did it in Az because he was desperate. He only had about 6 or 7 guys who really starters in the NFL, and then in the middle of a season, playing a 34 D, most of his LB got hurt at the same time. He also had a great SS, and it let him move the guy around like a LB or like Sean Dawkins to get mismatches. But he only had 1 guy who could rush the QB and he needed him at LB on run downs, and a ton of HUGE DL. They were so big, that big old Reuben Davis was a DE for them in their 4 man line. Fritz still played with it some in GB when he left AZ, but it was never his base D in GB.

Sutton can be a 34 DE, or probably better yet, a 3 technique DT. The guy is not that stout to handle the double team, but he can run, get penetration and get after the QB.

Haggeman might be a good prospect because he could start at DE, and then as you got him to bulk up he could probably play inside. Still, he scares me. A guy who moves like that, and can be as physical as he flashes, yet really doesn't make plays. He spends a lot of time for a big guy running around people. I don't think he has that mean streak you look for in DL. If we had a DL coach who was better at pushing guys buttons, or a guy like Jamal to mentor him, I would like the idea of drafting him a whole lot more. But we already have Johnson and Pagano's hands full with Liuget and Reyes. I don't think he is as good a fit for us.

Yea i remember you stating your case against Haggeman a couple weeks ago. I agree with you on him. In fact im just not sold on many of the DTs in this drat when it comes to our type of D. I see a lot of 43 DTs. However i think Donald can do whatever you ask of him. I wouldn't even put it past him to find success at 43 de or even OLB in a 34. Im that fricken crazy about his abilities. He reminds me of Ingram in a way. He and Zack Martin are a couple of my favorite players in this draft. Love the WR Montcrief as well. Just guys i struggle to dislike on film.

My son plays rush linebacker for his HS team but this year they are moving him up to DE. Hes way outside in a 7 tech inside the TE. But hes so fast he does well out there.

[Steve]

That's the way it always is. Lots of guy can be good fits to a 43, but there are hardly any guys who are just 34 guys. That and in the 43, the same player is just going to be much more productive. I think the 43 helps players, because it is just so much easier to stay motivated. Players like penetrating and attacking upfield.

Haggeman reminds me a lot of Eric Swann the semi-pro guy who was the all pro with the cardinals. I remember watching him and I just thought, this guy is just missing something, but if he gets it, he is going to be terrific. Haggeman is the same way. If he gets in the right situation and they can hit the right combination of teaching and motivation with him, his physical tools could allow him to be the best DL in football. But he has to really work on it an play with a lot more urgency, and I don't know if you can teach that.

I wish the Chargers would go out and sign a guy like Jamal, or someone like that. A pro's pro, who can help mentor some of these guy, because it is just too much for a position coach to be trying to really mentor a whole bunch of guys at the same time, on top of actually doing the behind the scenes stuff that is part of their job. I am sure some do, but I am not getting that sort of vibe off of Don Johnson, although I hope I am wrong about that.

But the DL and OLB are at a bit of a cross roads. The guys we have MUST step up, or we are going to have to start going elsewhere and get new players who can produce. I didn't feel like it was just the DL that held us back this season, but it was close. The DL can't be it again.

[Fleet]

I thought the D was sort of the tale of 2 halves. The D when we removed Cox...and got JJ/Ingram back allowed us to be close to the top team in fewest points allowed over the past 6 weeks or so. And in that time Thomas was still getting pushed around. I think upgrading him will help out but ultimately the DL needs to play better. Teams could take out Thomas with one guy and that had an impact on the rest of the front 7. Reyes and Liuget started off slow but played better down the stretch. We need to get after the qb so obviously OLBs are needed. Overall we need to get faster on defense imo. Also Lissemore in college demanded a double and excelled against it. When he played NT i thought he played well. And upgrades our speed there as well. So he might be the upgrade we need at NT. I still think that Donald could be disruptive enough at NT that teams have to do something about it. Freeing up the rest of the front 7.

If a guy like Williams was acquirable he would be a hot commodity for sure. Maybe Liuget makes the move to NT and a DE in free agency is the answer. Maybe a Starks type. he looked good at NT in the pre-season before he had to move back to DE to cover for Ferguson.

[RobH]

It seems like a lot of people have written him off, but Geathers showed me enough in pre-season, that I want to see how he progresses with a full year of practices, weight training, and technique work before I give up on him. He's got the size and strength as a young man to impress. If he's got the heart and desire to be the best, I think he'll be a good one. I'm hoping that the coaches and staff see the same thing and are looking for him to step up this next year.

As always, I'm an optimist.

[Beerman]

It seems like a lot of people have written him off, but Geathers showed me enough in pre-season, that I want to see how he progresses with a full year of practices, weight training, and technique work before I give up on him. He's got the size and strength as a young man to impress. If he's got the heart and desire to be the best, I think he'll be a good one. I'm hoping that the coaches and staff see the same thing and are looking for him to step up this next year.

As always, I'm an optimist.

I'm a fan of him, but I don't expect the world. While he has the physical traits needed at the position, he was raw as hell last year. I do think he's a solid long term prospect and I hope he can work his way into the rotation this season.

Sure as hell don't want to rely on him as a starter.

[Formula 21]

I'm a fan of him, but I don't expect the world. While he has the physical traits needed at the position, he was raw as hell last year. I do think he's a solid long term prospect and I hope he can work his way into the rotation this season.

Sure as hell don't want to rely on him as a starter.

I think of him more as the current Vaughn Martin. More of a 3-4 year project.

[thelightningwill]

I think of him more as the current Vaughn Martin. More of a 3-4 year project.

In three to four years, we'll have Vaughn Martin? Nice optimism.

[Steve]

I don't think you can right him off, because he has two brothers who are NFL players. That is huge. He knows what it will take to be an NFL player. And I didn't think he was that bad stuffing the run vs the Bengals in the playoffs. He didn't get to play much, and I don't think he got to play at all in the 2nd half, but he was OK. It's not unusual for rookie DL to basically redshirt while they develop their technique.

The thing I don't really get is why did Jenkins get ranked so much higher then Gaithers in college? If you watch them play, you see two incredible athletes who are just massive. Both run like much smaller men. Both of them have incredible power. Both have leverage problems, which was why Georgia was ranked so low vs the run. Both need to learn to use their hands, and need to get off the ball more quickly. Jenkins was a bit better, but not by a wide margin. But Jenkins got a lot of attention, and Geather didn't.

I agree, that it may be a few years before Geathers fully develops, but I wouldn't be suprised if he can develop "enough" to be the starting NT. It's not like the guy needs to focus on pass rush moves. Just work on staying low and shedding blocks. If the only rush move he ever has is a bull rush, so be it. And all he really needs to be is be able to hold his ground vs the double team, at least at first. Obviously you want him to dominate vs the run, but I'll just settle for being big and keeping our LB clean.

I just don't think you can count on UDFA rookies to develop. You hope he does pan out, but you don't stop looking for other guys. But, if we go into next year with Geathers, Thomas and Lissemore fighting it out in TC for the starting NT and backup NT/DE spots, I would be OK with that. I would like to see us go after another big NT type of UDFA to push and see what we can find, but with 3 guys ahead of him, he probably wouldn't get enough reps to win anyway.

As far as Martin goes, he got a lot better initally, but then never continued. But, remember Geathers is a better player, so he doesn't has as far to go. Nor is he expected to do as much. He just has to occupy blockers and stuff the run.

[bonehead]

Haggeman could put up some impressive workout numbers at the combine....I expect his draft stock to rise...doesn't mean he'll be a good football player

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

Will Auburn's Dee Ford be first-round pick in 2014 NFL Draft?

Charles Davis NFL Media analyst +Follow on Twitter 745 SHARE

As we move closer to the next big step in the draft process --the combine (Feb. 19-25) -- I don't think anyone should underestimate what Dee Ford did for his draft stock at the Senior Bowl.

He created plenty of buzz with his performance, and the high praise he has received is justified.

Ford flashed in every aspect of practice during the week. It was clear he was on a different level as I watched him go through agility drills with other defensive linemen -- and when the game started, he did it again (he earned game MVP honors).

He did it all week long, and the former Auburn defensive end wasn't one of those guys who needed the game to rescue him from a tough week. He wasn't a player who had a great week and then just shut it down in the game. He carried all the way through, and it was impressive.

It wasn't a surprise, though.

Ford had been building up to the moment throughout 2013, and it was clear he had the ability he showed in Mobile as he racked up 10.5 sacks during the season. He played well on the biggest stages, including against Missouri in the SEC title game, and he got after Jameis Winston in the national championship game. He's always around the ball and wasn't one of those guys that just feasted on inferior opponents and piled up stats.

What can a strong Senior Bowl performance do for a prospect on the rise? Look no further than last year, when Central Michigan's Eric Fisher went from being penciled in as someone who would go in the second half of the first round to the No. 1 overall pick in the draft. His Senior Bowl performance helped start his ascent. Of course, Ford's circumstances are different. I wouldn't project him as anything less than a second-rounder at this point, but the Senior Bowl is a big-time testing ground and Ford helped himself quite a bit over the course of the week,perhaps enough to put him in the discussion for some teams as a potential late first-rounder.

That is the big question for him: Can he convince teams in the next few months to vault him up to Round 1 on their draft boards? It will depend, in part, on how teams want to play him as clubs determine whether he's a fit for them.

He lined up as a defensive end all week at the Senior Bowl, but I think he will be best utilized as a 3-4 outside linebacker in the pros. At 6-foot-2 and 243 pounds, he's a speedy guy who can rush the passer. His athletic ability, agility and foot skills are outstanding, and when he goes to the combine, I think he's going to test off the charts. I think he's going to blow NFL teams away, and he's going to be one of those defensive linemen that will get pulled to go through additional linebacker drills. Teams will want to see how he fares in those situations, and I think he'll show them he has the skill set to excel at the position.

If a team departs the combine thinking that Ford is worth nabbing in the first round, I will not be surprised.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft-scout/24431883/nfl-draft-combine-snubs-at-each-position

Combine snubs...