And With The 5th Pick Of The NFL Draft Chargers Select....Discussion

[Boltx]

Watching every playoff game I'm absorbing a couple big lessons

1. EVERY OT gets beat on a couple plays every game.
2. Good TEs are making a huge difference in every game, often the winning difference
3. Interior DTs that disrupt both pass and run throw the whole fucking offense off kilter. Great teams have this central anchor.
4. Receivers making huge impact are not Top 5 Rd1 superstars

My Charger Analysis
1. Pipkins is not elite but we can survive
2. We do not have a TE like this
3. We do not have an Interior DT player that does this
4. We don't have a true Elite #1 WR (KA does that job within his physical limitations, imagine if he was #2)

So ... TE, DT, and WR are more likely to improve the 2024 Chargers than OT with R1 pick. Plus I'm not convinced Alt or Fashanu are really top tier OTs that are that much better than the next tier.
Question will be are they aiming for 2024, or 2025?
If building the trench - trade down and go DL with R1 pick
IF adding a weapon, I'd go Bowers then Nabers, but can see B, N or Odunze all as viably too close to really nitpick about.

Agree with all this but what do we always say - this time of year, you have to be able to both run the ball and stop the run.

Having an elite TE just totally changes what you can do on offense - we should know. Bowers will also help in the run game as he is a plus blocker.

I would not be upset with Odunze as our WR room may not be as robust as we think (MW likely gone, I hope KA is back but aging, QJ and DD unknown, Palmer a nice player but not elite).

And we need to address the center position - we have signed two quality vets in recent years that can't stay healthy (Pouncey, Linsley).

Among others.

[dmac_bolt]

I'd add a 2nd round center if we can't sign a quality vet. I'm way jealous of the centers I saw last weekend.
Watching an injured Ragnow deal with Vita Vea was awesome.
If the rest of our OL are acceptable, then our OC and OL coach are not good enough. We could not run, which is a must and pass pro was not good. Also a must.
We need Bowers and a RB that can block, catch and run.
I like DT also but care more about taking care of Herbert and helping him dominate on O.
We were one of the NFL's weakest 2nd half offenses, maybe the worst in 3rd quarter. That shit HAS to stop.
I want us to play with the big boys and put Herbert back on the charts that count. TDs and Ws in 2024.

OC in Rd3, agree 100% top OL need
OC and OLC upgrade is on its way.

[BigBad]

Gronk Rookie year TDs.

Im 100% fine with Bowers at 5th pick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE_zSyppOV8

[Duck of Death]

Yea, IF we are going to run Harbaughs two YE set offense, a TE is a must. Bowers can block , catch... A weapon in that offense. In any offense but he will be more than just a blocker which he can do.

May have to sign one as well or draft two. Maybe he likes his Michigan TE AJ Barner in round 5 as well.

I just don't see Parham as a good fit if we switch to that offensive set. Maybe he can be a #3, and he is signed for next year.

But we don't know yet til he hires a OC and Moore isn't here.

I would not be surprised to see AJ Barner, along with a few other Wolverines. They need an inline TE & that Barner kid looks like a decent blocker.

https://youtu.be/MmkNRkR3bYA?si=tWVZxX6r43erIOvq

[Boltjolt]

I would not be surprised to see AJ Barner, along with a few other Wolverines. They need an inline TE & that Barner kid looks like a decent blocker.

https://youtu.be/MmkNRkR3bYA?si=tWVZxX6r43erIOvq

Maybe, but he/they didnt draft hardly any of his Stanford players when he was at SF. We sure can use Colson though.

[Duck of Death]

Maybe, but he/they didnt draft hardly any of his Stanford players when he was at SF. We sure can use Colson though.

He didn’t see eye to eye with the GM. Supposedly one of the big reasons he left was over personnel control. Who knows, but he did bring in some Stanford UDFAs. Perhaps that was all he was allowed.

[Budsman]

Pipkins gets more crap than other OL for several reasons. If you go through each game, judging players on what they do, every OL we had was making a fair number of mistakes. Slater somewhat less, but Johnson, Sayler and Clapp were all bad this year.

1). He has a history of making mistakes. Players develop at their own pace. Once a player develops to a point, you have to let those mistakes go and just evaluate them on the ones they are making. However, whoever plays RT for the Chargers seems to get much more crap than anyone else.

2). RT is much more visible than interior OL. That doesn't mean they are all bigger mistakes than the OG and C, who were just fucking awful this year, weren't catastrophic. Typically, when the post-game or game-day threads go on about stuff, the emphasis is on OT missing a block because they can see the pass rusher coming, yet a 3rd or 4th down run where the middle of the OL collapses isn't commented on much, if at all. However, all are major factors for a team that is losing close games.

3). The expectation seems to be that OT cannot make any mistakes concerning allowing pressure on the QB. However, there is a severe shortage of good OT, and could/can we afford two $20-25 M a year OT? To some degree, everyone is just going to have to get used to the idea that the RT is not going to be as good as Slater, who despite the down year is just not as good. Pipkins is the 16th highest-paid RT in terms of average per year. That makes him halfway through the pay scale. In an effective sense, because he is a year into his deal, he is in the bottom half. He is somewhat expensive for a swing OT, but I think most members of this board are not aware of how much OL, or at least that the only swing OT that are really worth what they are paid are the ones still on their rookie deals,or have pretty big warts (injury history, age ...).

4). Sayler got a lot of help from Herbert last season. A lot of times when Salyer got beat last season at OT, Herbert was getting rid of the ball quickly. A lot of the sacks Pipkins gives up, Herbert is holding the ball. I don't disagree that he should be allowed to compete and possibly win the OT job, I don't think it is a foregone conclusion that he would win. Pipkins is a better pass blocker overall, and they both suck run blocking (pick any season to compare for either).

IThe argument that a RB has to break a tackle in the backfield is nonsense. Running plays are supposed to give the RB a chance to get going. Zone runs give the RB a "landmark" where they have to make their 1st cut/decision about where to go. If they can't get to that landmark, it's the OL fault. Football is a team sport, the OL have to do their job and we don't have any OL who were even average this season. Yes, there will be some plays that a RB will get hit in the backfield, we can't prevent all running plays from being blown up, but for us it is the norm, and that is unacceptable. All our OL are part of the problem, as well as our TE and WR.

Our RB are going down easily because they aren't up to speed. I also think that to some degree, the RB are trying to minimize the loss. You go down, because if you fight too hard, and deliberately give up yardage to keep fighting, the forward progress gets reset further back (Roundtree used to do that a good bit). If the defenders are already in the backfield most of the time, we have already lost and you are splitting hairs. Try watching the Ravens OL, or the Lions running games. Both show how it should be done.

I am not sure that I agree with (not) taking Bowers makes that much sense. We do have needs at WR and OT, but the way Bowers can block at the point of attack, pull and lead, or just play like a classic FB, adds something that we really need. Kincaid was taken with the 25th pick and he is not nearly as good as Bowers, although he may have some more upside as a receiver. Looking at next years prospects there are good WR in every draft now. Same with some OL. TE, only this draft and last season's draft have the number of top prospects. Call it a by-product of Covid. But TE are hard to develop and were never all that common, even when many college teams played pro-style offenses. Today, with everyone playing spread, it has been a lot less likely lately. The draft is about adding good players who build our team. We have to get a good TE(s) at some point.

Interesting take. I do find it funny that you’re quick to throw away pipkins previous mistakes as “growing” but then make excuses for how Salyer was bailed out by Herbert. Results are results and Pipkins is just not that good. Yes good right tackles cost money but is pipkins worth 7 mil a year? Watching him for 5 years that answer is clearly no. Drafting a few young tackles and letting them compete with a vet on the minimum Would do the exact same or better than what pipkins gives us.

Salyer, clearly plays a better Tackle than guard and the move to guard hurt his performance. There is no denying the results he put up as our LT last year and in the nfl results are king and the rest walks.

You seem to know a lot about football, and I’m surprised you think the running game is always meant to be clean. I admit our OL has been bad but our RBs when challenged have also been bad. If every play is run perfectly you still have a defensive unit that will ruin your plans and that’s where running backs who are worth big contracts make plays. I’ve seen Gibbs break tackles in the backfield and I’ve definitely seen him outrun a defender who made a good play in the backfield (friend is a lions fan so I watch a bunch of their games with him). The backfield in THEORY should be clean but in reality it often isn’t and while yes ours was dirtier than most our running backs did nothing to help that situation.

Also on a third and short if youre ok with a running back giving up on the play because he’s hit in the backfield, I’ll just agree to disagree.


I’m not sold on Bowers but he for sure has to be in the chargers short list.

[gzubeck]

Interesting take. I do find it funny that you’re quick to throw away pipkins previous mistakes as “growing” but then make excuses for how Salyer was bailed out by Herbert. Results are results and Pipkins is just not that good. Yes good right tackles cost money but is pipkins worth 7 mil a year? Watching him for 5 years that answer is clearly no. Drafting a few young tackles and letting them compete with a vet on the minimum Would do the exact same or better than what pipkins gives us.

Salyer, clearly plays a better Tackle than guard and the move to guard hurt his performance. There is no denying the results he put up as our LT last year and in the nfl results are king and the rest walks.

You seem to know a lot about football, and I’m surprised you think the running game is always meant to be clean. I admit our OL has been bad but our RBs when challenged have also been bad. If every play is run perfectly you still have a defensive unit that will ruin your plans and that’s where running backs who are worth big contracts make plays. I’ve seen Gibbs break tackles in the backfield and I’ve definitely seen him outrun a defender who made a good play in the backfield (friend is a lions fan so I watch a bunch of their games with him). The backfield in THEORY should be clean but in reality it often isn’t and while yes ours was dirtier than most our running backs did nothing to help that situation.

Also on a third and short if youre ok with a running back giving up on the play because he’s hit in the backfield, I’ll just agree to disagree.


I’m not sold on Bowers but he for sure has to be in the chargers short list.

We need 9 olinemen and he's 1 of 9...maybe he can't be a starter for all 17 games but still paying him vs. Joey Bosa I'd rather do...

[Boltnut]

Ok I’m back on Bowers

Listen to what Saban said... When they had 3 TE's in the game, we had 3 DB's in the game; we brought in an extra LB... they got nothing."
I think he's talking about the extra LB as the key to stopping what ND was doing. One thing that goes unnoticed with Bills vs Chiefs (the 2nd video) is that the Bills were forced to go nickel because Matt Milano was unavailable in that game. If Milano was in there... I suspect KC doesn't go 13-personnel.

Offense is great guys, but KC's defense was really good. They had McDuffie on Diggs most of the night. With Bolton back in the middle, the Chiefs have been able to use Tranquil to his strength (outside v TE). Kincaid had only 45 yards receiving. Without Gabe Davis, without Milano, Buffalo was at a disadvantage.

This weekend we will see the #1 (Balt), #2 (KC) and #3 (SF) scoring defenses.

[Boltnut]

BTW... if you watch the Alabama game (where they beat Bowers and the Dawgs)... Saban defended Bowers largely with LB's (and safeties over the top). Bowers got 53 yards vs Alabama... most of it coming from an early play when a LB missed their assignment.

[BigBad]

Listen to what Saban said....

I understand what he said. And he's saying it as a defensive coordinator. He needs to match personnel. Guess what? The offense needs to present multiple looks in personnel. Have tight ends that are weapons and can run block(unlike our current ones) to keep defensive coaches on their heels. And if they line up big a Tight End like Bowers EATS THEM UP in Play Action! No LBer is guarding him. A lot of times the constant nickel is to cover a Kelce like what the Bills tried to do. TO be fair the Bills were missing a ton of Lbers

We also need speed on Offense. Which is why I understand wanting Nabors.

[blueman]

We need 9 olinemen and he's 1 of 9...maybe he can't be a starter for all 17 games but still paying him vs. Joey Bosa I'd rather do...

I’d rather get day three picks/promising UDFAs to replace both, one can’t stay on the field and the other you never want to see on the field.