2024 Chargers Draft Superthread - Prospect Discussion - Draft Has Started

[Jack Burton]

Apparently (according to some Youtuber who went to owner's meetings last week) the Vikings offered the #11 and #23 picks straight up for #4. The Cardinals said it was going to take more than that (high pick next year as well). The Vikings said, yeah... no, the #11 and #23 should be enough.

If Vikings are saying that, then I would assume some conversations with the Chargers have already occurred... and that is their negotiated price.

The question is... is that enough for Joe Hortiz...? I would assume that those conversations occurred before the Vikings traded for #23 in the first place... but who knows.

Personally, I would take the deal. You get what you wanted anyways. @#11, you are looking @Fuaga and Bowers. @#23, you are looking @LB, CB, WR, or Edge rusher. IMO, that's much better than staying @#5 and getting the 2nd best WR (or the #1 OT).

Like someone's signature states, "Less isn't more... More is more"

Let’s look at this a little closer. GMs who need QBs don’t just go get 1st round picks from other teams without consulting other GMs. They just don’t. Because if the team they want to trade with tells them after the fact that it’s not enough and here’s why, you just wasted all your draft capitol on a stupid move that won’t get you want you are targeting, and the owner is asking “WTF are you doing!?!?!” They talk. A lot. And here’s what we know. MIN went and got 23. They wouldn’t have done that and then gone to AZ and said, “ Hey! look what we did! Is this good enough?!?” They all had discussions In February about it and the parameters where drawn up as to what would be acceptable. And then MIN went and did it. Not just with AZ, but with NE and LAC too. What’s it gonna take to get this trade going? Where would that 2nd 1st round pick need to fall? And those team told MIN right around 21 to 25 is acceptable. And they went and did it.
So, to do that these teams that are in talks realize, that MIN is doing there part here. They are trading away draft capitol and taking huge risks to go get another 1st and we’ve told them were willing to play ball. They’ve upheld their part of this deal so far. So I’m doubting Monte just up and said, “That’s not enough!” They’ve already laid the groundwork and agreed on the trade. Now, it’s the technicalities of the trade. 2025 1st included? How bout a 2025 2nd and our 2024 4th? Haggling commences over the fine points to the trade. And MIN is all in. They need a QB and they need one in this draft. They’ve come this far, I doubt they are making demands now. Next years draft is very bleh at QB. It’s not considered a QB draft. Ewers!?! Deons kid!?! I dunno….

Also. What’s to stop Monte who traded multiple times in the 1st round last year, from just going right back up and getting MH2 at 5 with his 3 1st rounders he now has when he does get 11 and 23? AZ has 3 3rds already….
They’ve got 37 a high 2nd.

More than likely these deals are already agreed upon.

[Critty]

Arizona could flip picks with Chargers, so they can stay at #5 and get a WR they badly need. 100pt is a 4th and 5th Rd pick to do the swap. Then Chargers can trade #4 overall to Vikings and get #11 and #23. Arz picks up two picks in deal and still get their guy MHJ. And Vikings get their QB. Chargers pick BPA at #11 and then again at #23.

[sonorajim]

And that's fine... that fits most people's philosophies. But that isn't necessarily Joe Ortiz's stance... or Jim Harbaugh's. If you're looking specifically at offensive players (and it seems you are)... then your stance may not be Greg Roman's stance.

I suggest you go back and look at the Ravens roster under Greg Roman. I suggest you go look at the 49ers roster under Harbaugh/Roman. I think you'll find fewer "elite" WR's than you envision. I think you'll find that both OT positions were fortified pretty well with solid OT's.

@SF, they had Joe Staley and Anthony Davis (both 1st rounders). @Baltimore, they had Ronnie Staley (#6 pick) and Orlando Brown Jr. Now, OBJ wasn't a 1st round pick... but he should have been. IIRC, he ended up @LT and had a Pro Bowl year in 2020 (as Ronnie Stanley was out with injury). IIRC, Ravens got a 1st round pick out of the Chiefs (who had their own OT problems in SB LV) via trade.

The most "Elite WR Talent" they had @SF and Baltimore was Anquan Boldin... and his best years were with Arizona. Both stops were as a free agent (3 year deals, then gone). They rarely re-sign the WR's they draft... and I don't think any of them were as good as Keenan Allen (a guy they just traded because he wouldn't take a paycut).

I suspect you'll need to change your stance.

I won't try to speak for SCR37 but personally? I'll change my stance to whatever H2 does as long as the Ws rack up in 2024.

[Boltnut]

Keep on sending Pro Bowlers at key positions packing and bring in the unproven rook?

Another problem with drafting beanpole at #5 is that if things work out, he'll be very expensive in 5 years.
Unlike Telesco, most GMs don't want to lock up all the money at one position.

So, you will be almost forced to send Slater packing, perhaps prematurely - for the late 3rd rounder (hip hip hooray!!)

And then beanpole gets back problems, regresses, never develops beyond that first year ......

It seems that is the M.O. @Baltimore. They traded their Pro-Bowl OT Orlando Brown Jr away. They let their All-Pro LB (Patrick Queen) walk this off-season. They will probably draft OT in the 1st round this year... and they drafted ILB Trenton Simpson to replace Queen.

Their current cap has a QB, CB, FS, LT, TE, and DT all making $10m+.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/cap/

They will most likely have to re-negotiate their Pro Bowl LT (Stanley) after the season (or let him walk).
They will most likely cut their Pro Bowl TE (Andrews) after the season (contract is structured thusly and they have their next TE in Likely).

Drafting "Bean Pole" is my second option (as I like the trade-back better).
But if the trade doesn't go through, then I think Hortiz/Harbaugh/Roman probably prefer Bean Pole to Shiny-Prettyboy-TrashTalk fella.
It's a scheme thing.

[powderblueboy]

If it was only between the Cardinals and Chargers, Minnesota would have some leverage.
The Giants throw a big f'kin monkey wrench in all that. It has to be the #4 or #5 spot, and the Giants are flirting with Monti & Joe.

Minnesota screwed themselves when they got rid of Cousins, and then traded up for that 2nd 1rst.
There is blood in the water, and the Cardinals/Chargers smell it.

Ride with Sam Darnold? Don't make me laugh ..... flush the next two seasons down the toilet and try again in the 2026 draft.

They'll probably include next years first to get McCarthy, thinking/hoping/praying it will be a bottom half first.

Sorry Boltnut, they'll probably cave in to Arizona's demands, unless they like Nabers/Odunze enough and what the Giants will offer.
The math is irrefutable.

[wu-dai clan]

Oh good night.
These "reasons" are terrible.

Here's something new per Brett Kollmann.
A case can be made for Cooper DeJean @ #11.
He can tackle.
He can play Slot.
Amongst other spots.
It would be a major impact on our defense.

Again I will be watching carefully at the workout on the 8th.
Cooper DeJean @ #11.
Khristian Boyd @ #110.

[Topcat]

Let’s look at this a little closer. GMs who need QBs don’t just go get 1st round picks from other teams without consulting other GMs. They just don’t. Because if the team they want to trade with tells them after the fact that it’s not enough and here’s why, you just wasted all your draft capitol on a stupid move that won’t get you want you are targeting, and the owner is asking “WTF are you doing!?!?!” They talk. A lot. And here’s what we know. MIN went and got 23. They wouldn’t have done that and then gone to AZ and said, “ Hey! look what we did! Is this good enough?!?” They all had discussions In February about it and the parameters where drawn up as to what would be acceptable. And then MIN went and did it. Not just with AZ, but with NE and LAC too. What’s it gonna take to get this trade going? Where would that 2nd 1st round pick need to fall? And those team told MIN right around 21 to 25 is acceptable. And they went and did it.
So, to do that these teams that are in talks realize, that MIN is doing there part here. They are trading away draft capitol and taking huge risks to go get another 1st and we’ve told them were willing to play ball. They’ve upheld their part of this deal so far. So I’m doubting Monte just up and said, “That’s not enough!” They’ve already laid the groundwork and agreed on the trade. Now, it’s the technicalities of the trade. 2025 1st included? How bout a 2025 2nd and our 2024 4th? Haggling commences over the fine points to the trade. And MIN is all in. They need a QB and they need one in this draft. They’ve come this far, I doubt they are making demands now. Next years draft is very bleh at QB. It’s not considered a QB draft. Ewers!?! Deons kid!?! I dunno….

Also. What’s to stop Monte who traded multiple times in the 1st round last year, from just going right back up and getting MH2 at 5 with his 3 1st rounders he now has when he does get 11 and 23? AZ has 3 3rds already….
They’ve got 37 a high 2nd.

More than likely these deals are already agreed upon.

Correct. As I mentioned in another post, I remember reading somewhere on good authority that GM's have these deals worked out well ahead of time, EXCEPT for any contingencies resulting from an unexpected team hopping in front of them and grabbing their targeted player. In that case, the deal is probably off, unless they can work out an alternative deal with either the original team or another team while they're on the clock.

[blueman]

April is always a fun month.

[powderblueboy]

Bolt,

You totally skipped my whole premise including the most important piece, the financial side.
You’re selling low on the value of the 5th pick and settling for who you hope “might” be the best run blocking right tackle in this draft. (By the way, who would that be?)
You are also assuming they see Pipkins as such a problem they have to trade out of a guaranteed Elite prospect for what you call a possibility. Then you call a LBer (assuming Cooper is who your referring to) when there is no guarantee he’s worth a 1st round pick (I know scouts personally who think he’s a late 2nd rounder at best).
What if they believe Colson is the best LB for their scheme? They could get him later than #37.

Is it possible they feel they can get the same type of value for a player at #37 or later than a player at #23? I do, in fact, there was already a young upcoming team with a franchise QB with a savvy GM who felt there was just as much value in the mid 2nd as the late 1st and traded out entirely.
Then felt a 1 year rental on an aging receiver was more valuable that the WR they could get at the Top of round 2.

I’m well aware of how Harbaugh wants to build this team ultimately but this ain’t the early 2000’s and it sure as heck ain’t the BIG 10. You have to go through a Dynasty and you aren’t going to lineup and run the ball 40 times and pass 20 times and beat these AFC Teams. He knows that by the way and so does Hortiz.

i care about Elite Talent when available for a valued cost. If fact, Hortiz has drafted a WR in the 1st round for Baltimore in 3 of the last 5 years.
You simply don’t pass on Elite Talent at a Premium Position in 2024 unless it’s for a tremendous ransom.
#11 and #23 is not enough capital.

Hi Super Charged,

nice posts so far .... although some here already hate you.

I don't understand the excessive zeal about winning through smash mouth football.
With a few exceptions, that hasn't worked ever since Don Coryell came into the league.

Remember the 49er linebacker saying how he hated playing Dan Henning's Charger teams, because they would beat the shit out of you in losing?

[Boltnut]

Some slob (your Youtuber ) hangs out at the owner's meeting (they let him in ?), and suddenly he gets inside information as to some very secretive talks between GMs?

Let's speculate that there are negotiations currently being conducted: Arizona will be asking for the Moon, and the Vikings won't be budging at this moment .... I don't need to be a fly on the wall to know that.

Typically, someone caves within the 7 days leading up to the draft; their current alleged impasse is meaningless.

Well, he's not MY Youtuber... I was only responding to BoltJolt's reference to rumors about alleged trade offers from Vikings/Cardinals.
I assume any leaked negotiations between GM's are purposeful at this date and time. Liar's Month doesn't move the needle for me.

The Youtubers are from a Cardinals fanboy channel. They seem to think they will get a king's ransom (MHJ and two more 1st round picks) while the Vikings and Chargers play the role of desperate lackies and pawn-pieces within their grand, multi-trade up/down, scheme. It's actually rather ridiculous.

Whether someone caves at the last moment is pure speculation. The only thing we know for sure... is that no deal has been made yet.

[Bolt4Knob]

Arizona could flip picks with Chargers, so they can stay at #5 and get a WR they badly need. 100pt is a 4th and 5th Rd pick to do the swap. Then Chargers can trade #4 overall to Vikings and get #11 and #23. Arz picks up two picks in deal and still get their guy MHJ. And Vikings get their QB. Chargers pick BPA at #11 and then again at #23.

I am good with it. If the Cardinals overplay their hand - MN will be on the phone with the Chargers. Granted, maybe another team like the Giants would move up to the Cardinals. Giants could do 1st and 2nd, get their QB, Cardinals would be at 6 and still get Nabers or MHJr - if they want MHJr, call the Chargers and offer their 3rd.

Lots of machinations going on but I hope the one idea happens - Matt Money Smith and Jack Burton I think had something similar or Chargers 8491
MN moves up to 4
AZ drops to 11

AZ moves back up to 5
Chargers get 11 plus AZ 2nd and 3rd rounders

[Jack Burton]

Correct. As I mentioned in another post, I remember reading somewhere on good authority that GM's have these deals worked out well ahead of time, EXCEPT for any contingencies resulting from an unexpected team hopping in front of them and grabbing their targeted player. In that case, the deal is probably off, unless they can work out an alternative deal with either the original team or another team while they're on the clock.

Yeah, the top 5-10 picks are already made in the eyes of these GMs and they all know what’s going to happen today.
Now is the time when it’s the GMs job to make a team change from that course.
NYG now know what AZ has been offered by MIN and they are haggling out the details. While AZ haggles those details with MIN, they are haggling out the details with LAC on a deal to get 5.
It’s the NYG GMs job to offset those deals. If they even want 4. He now has to go in knowing the parameters of the deals being made and make a better offer that will
offset everything that’s already happened so far…