Sorry Fellas. Mike McCoy is not the guy.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

Thank you Steve! I would add, and it does sound cliche, but you hear it all the time. Punting is better than forcing the ball down field. When you force the ball bad things happen (see Rivers last 2 years). The runs were not designed " to give the opponent the ball" Dude, please! It was clock management and field position at that point in the game. Scifres is a weapon. He's paid to do a job. He executed extremely well when he was called upon. The holding penalty killed plan A, so we had togo with plan B. End of story. I didn' t like the conservative play calling either, but I understood in that situation. Risk vs reward. The risks, not just the worst case risk, were very high in that situation. I feel the coaches decisions in that situation minimized those risks, you feel differently, we get that.

Going to the half tied or down three with no significant momentum for Cincy on the road, in weather (or impending weather), against that D, vs an undefeated home team, with a spare part OC and a largely inexperienced group in the playoffs is a victory to me. Maybe others don't see it that way.

[Steve]

I think the momentum swung back to us as soon as we held them to 3. Remember, it could have been 21-7 at the half. the 7 points they did score, 7 points that Butler prevented from being scored with the strip and a quick 3 and out gives them the ball back with time and could lead to 7 more. As it was, we went in to the locker room down 10-7. They had field position, momentum, everything, so to go in and regroup (and the regrouping part went pretty well), was a pretty solid strategy. I was pretty certain we were going to win at that point.

People can knock the not beating yourself strategy, but you know the three guys who LIVED that more then any other coaches? Bud Wilkerson (his Oklahoma Sooners dominated all of college football football in the 50's, and I think he still holds the record for most consecutive wins), John Wooden (greatest coach ever) and Vince Lombardi (greatest football coach ever).

Sure, if you have a dominant team you can dominate from start to finish, but there is no dominant team in the NFL this year. But a dominant team doesn't need to do much in the way of game planning and strategy. We use what we can, do what we can, and so far it's working.

If you want us to go pass happy, and play a lot of high risk stuff, you probably shouldn't watch this Sunday.

FWIW, if Scfries hadn't played on chargers teams that had good offenses all these years, he would be closing in on a hall of fame career. I honestly think he is the greatest punter to have ever played. He just doesn't get the recognition that Lechler did because Lechler has the longest net and gross averages of all time. Scfries is the greatest coffin corner specialist of all time, but because he can just unwind, people think he can't kick as far. Even when he does kick from deep in our end, he often goes for hang time. And he usually does a good job of being close to Lechler. Ray Guy and Lechler are both guys with huge legs and both have outstanding hang time, but Scfries is a machine at getting the ball down inside the 20, which is much, much tougher. And he is the only guy on our team who average 45 yards of feild position when he kicks.

[KNSD]

I don't know why you guys are arguing so much. BlazingBolt is right. There would be scorn and outrage on this board if the Chargers lost.

But that's reflection of fan irrationality rather than the decision the coach made. We put too much blame on the coach's individual game day choices when a team loses and praise their genius when the team wins.

The real key feature here is that this team has been coached up extremely well this year. Every player from Rivers to Addai has improved tremendously - great coaching job. The talent on this team really is a bit subpar but that's not stopping them from dominating. Amazing stuff, and really fun to watch.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

As it was, we went in to the locker room down 10-7. They had field position, momentum, everything, so to go in and regroup (and the regrouping part went pretty well), was a pretty solid strategy.

This was my thinking. Going into the game, you have a certain approach planned. When your very experienced center goes down, you probably have to cut the playbook some but you're doing all this on the fly, in the heat of battle. So you wing it a little until halftime, when you go in and have a chance to look at what's working, what isn't, talk to coach D about what he thinks Ohrenberger can execute, and so on. Obviously on D they have a better understanding of what Cincy is trying to do and can make adjustments accordingly. In that scenario, playing the clock-field position game and pretty much playing for a tie or to be down by three at the half means the game is a push at that point. Honestly, if your expectation is that this is going to be another grind it out game with Cincy (like the first game was), then I don't see why you'd do anything too differently than McCoy did. Now if you're down 21 or you're playing it close vs Peyton Manning and you know you're going to have to put up a lot of points to win, I can actually see looking at things differently.

FWIW, if Scfries hadn't played on chargers teams that had good offenses all these years, he would be closing in on a hall of fame career. I honestly think he is the greatest punter to have ever played. He just doesn't get the recognition that Lechler did because Lechler has the longest net and gross averages of all time. Scfries is the greatest coffin corner specialist of all time, but because he can just unwind, people think he can't kick as far. Even when he does kick from deep in our end, he often goes for hang time. And he usually does a good job of being close to Lechler. Ray Guy and Lechler are both guys with huge legs and both have outstanding hang time, but Scfries is a machine at getting the ball down inside the 20, which is much, much tougher. And he is the only guy on our team who average 45 yards of feild position when he kicks.

Thank you for writing this. He had a marvelous game Sunday and surely deserved a game ball for his work in the first half. I remember at the time thinking this was his best performance since that Indy playoff game several years ago. I agree with your assessment of him more generally, as well. He has really been the victim of bad luck, being in a conference with big name punters and playing on teams that just didnt require his services extensively. It's disappointing to me that he hasn't and probably won't get more recognition.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

I don't know why you guys are arguing so much. BlazingBolt is right. There would be scorn and outrage on this board if the Chargers lost.

But that's reflection of fan irrationality rather than the decision the coach made. We put too much blame on the coach's individual game day choices when a team loses and praise their genius when the team wins.

The real key feature here is that this team has been coached up extremely well this year. Every player from Rivers to Addai has improved tremendously - great coaching job. The talent on this team really is a bit subpar but that's not stopping them from dominating. Amazing stuff, and really fun to watch.

Agree with every word of this. But then I've been one who has kind of been arguing against that sort of mentality all year.

[Heatmiser]

FWIW, if Scfries hadn't played on chargers teams that had good offenses all these years, he would be closing in on a hall of fame career. I honestly think he is the greatest punter to have ever played. He just doesn't get the recognition that Lechler did because Lechler has the longest net and gross averages of all time. Scfries is the greatest coffin corner specialist of all time, but because he can just unwind, people think he can't kick as far. Even when he does kick from deep in our end, he often goes for hang time. And he usually does a good job of being close to Lechler. Ray Guy and Lechler are both guys with huge legs and both have outstanding hang time, but Scfries is a machine at getting the ball down inside the 20, which is much, much tougher. And he is the only guy on our team who average 45 yards of feild position when he kicks.

Travesty that Scfries has never made the pro bowl. Just stupid.

TG

[Formula 21]

Isn't a good offense one that does what the defense doesn't expect? Everyone expected a pass, that's how it's done in the NFL. So you run it and hope to catch the D defending the wrong thing. Plus the clock runs and there's almost no chance of a game-changing turnover. McCoy played it right.

[BlazingBolt]

With apologies to Fleet: Are you a fucking moron??? Come on, "running plays designed to give your opponent the ball," really? I can just hear Whiz now: "And whatever you do, for the love of my Megatronic future, if you get close to that first down marker, get down. We've got to make them stop us so we can punt the ball back to them! It's our only hope." Do you read what you post, or just guzzle down the tequila in one hand while pressing "Post" with the other?

[NB: Admins, if you're thinking of giving me a timeout for this, know that we started our winning streak when I started following gameday threads. You wouldn't want this loss on your conscience! ]

No timeouts needed. I aint offended.

We can agree to disagree on whether or not we were trying to get a first down. Yeah if a run pops no one is going to not take the first down but it was the same thing as something like Marty vs. the Jets running the ball when we got in to what he felt was FG range. You could argue Marty wasn't being conservative and he was trying to get more yardage or a first down by running the ball but you are just not going to see eye to eye with everyone else who thinks he was just handing the ball off and settling for the long FG try. Its a hand the ball off, don't do anything fancy, and just make dead sure you don't turn the ball over....thats what I think we did (after holding on #85). Gaining yardage or trying to get a first was pretty far down the priority list on those plays..

I think the Chargers were perfectly fine taking a 3 and out along with Cincy's timeouts and punting the ball back to them. That's what it looked like to me, if that makes me a moron in your book that's just fine with me but you are not going to convince me the Chargers were giving their best effort to get a first down after that insurmountable 3 yard penalty (who ever has hope of getting a first down when saddled with 1st and 13? The humanity!). That is what I have a problem with and if you disagree that's what they were doing the conversation can not progress.

In my mind that is the most blatant mistake of the season. It wasn't costly overall but it is more clearly a mistake than even the play calling in Washington at the end of regulation. Again not as big of a deal but more clearly a mistake.

If you agree they were more concerned about making Cincy call timeouts than they were about trying to get a first down than we can discuss further.

And I don't get Steves points at all in post #923. Thrown the ball downfield? Why did they need to that? It was 3 yard penalty, that is one of the smallest penalties you can even get. I was not saying we needed to start throwing bombs downfield, geez. We just needed to be more aggressive in seeking the first down. And this momentum talk is off base. Cincy took the lead at half and was getting the ball first. They did have the momentum at that point and we didn't get it back until we stopped them and went and took the lead in the second half. Arguing that run and punt gave us the momentum at half is not accurate, maybe you had that feeling personally but there is no basis to state that as anything more than your personal feeling.

[BlazingBolt]

Quote Originally Posted by KNSD
I don't know why you guys are arguing so much. BlazingBolt is right.

Agree with every word of this.

How do I archive this?

http://www.thepowderblues.com/forum/showthread.php?3466-Sorry-Fellas-Mike-McCoy-is-not-the-guy&p=63620#post63620

[QSmokey]

No timeouts needed. I aint offended.

We can agree to disagree on whether or not we were trying to get a first down. Yeah if a run pops no one is going to not take the first down but it was the same thing as something like Marty vs. the Jets running the ball when we got in to what he felt was FG range. You could argue Marty wasn't being conservative and he was trying to get more yardage or a first down by running the ball but you are just not going to see eye to eye with everyone else who thinks he was just handing the ball off and settling for the long FG try. Its a hand the ball off, don't do anything fancy, and just make dead sure you don't turn the ball over....thats what I think we did (after holding on #85). Gaining yardage or trying to get a first was pretty far down the priority list on those plays..

I think the Chargers were perfectly fine taking a 3 and out along with Cincy's timeouts and punting the ball back to them. That's what it looked like to me, if that makes me a moron in your book that's just fine with me but you are not going to convince me the Chargers were giving their best effort to get a first down after that insurmountable 3 yard penalty (who ever has hope of getting a first down when saddled with 1st and 13? The humanity!). That is what I have a problem with and if you disagree that's what they were doing the conversation can not progress.

In my mind that is the most blatant mistake of the season. It wasn't costly AT ALL but it is more clearly a mistake than even the play calling in Washington at the end of regulation. Again not as big of a deal but more clearly a mistake.

If you agree they were more concerned about making Cincy call timeouts than they were about trying to get a first down than we can discuss further.

And I don't get Steves points at all in post #923. Thrown the ball downfield? Why did they need to that? It was 3 yard penalty, that is one of the smallest penalties you can even get. I was not saying we needed to start throwing bombs downfield, geez. We just needed to be more aggressive in seeking the first down. And this momentum talk is off base. Cincy took the lead at half and was getting the ball first. They did have the momentum at that point and we didn't get it back until we stopped them and went and took the lead in the second half. Arguing that run and punt gave us the momentum at half is not accurate, maybe you had that feeling personally but there is no basis to state that as anything more than your personal feeling.

Fixed it for ya.

[TTK]

Travesty that Scfries has never made the pro bowl. Just stupid.

I was just about to post that. It's unbelievable.

[TTK]

No timeouts needed. I aint offended.

We can agree to disagree on whether or not we were trying to get a first down. Yeah if a run pops no one is going to not take the first down but it was the same thing as something like Marty vs. the Jets running the ball when we got in to what he felt was FG range. You could argue Marty wasn't being conservative and he was trying to get more yardage or a first down by running the ball but you are just not going to see eye to eye with everyone else who thinks he was just handing the ball off and settling for the long FG try.

You keep talking about that particular series like the game was on the line. This was nothing like what Marty did, opting for a long field goal with a rookie kicker in bad weather. Back to this week's game, there was no need for the Chargers to score there. Sure it would have been nice but it was a tied game, very bad field position and they just lost Hardwick in that quarter.

In my mind that is the most blatant mistake of the season. It wasn't costly overall but it is more clearly a mistake than even the play calling in Washington at the end of regulation. Again not as big of a deal but more clearly a mistake.

Disagree one thousand percent. Game was on the line in Washington. That was a HUGE mistake that cost them the game. This week's "mistake" did not.